And we certainly missed his prescence in the recent shambolic displays when he was dropped, wouldn't you say.
Sedgwick: Normal lack of service is resumed...
And we certainly missed his prescence in the recent shambolic displays when he was dropped, wouldn't you say.
So Sedgwick didn't play against Scunthorpe when they scored 3, or against QPR when they put four past us, or Forest when we conceded another 3, or Bristol City when we let in 4?
And how on earth did we manage to have two consecutive blank sheets v Peterborough and Ipswich without this colossus of a defensive player in the team I wonder....😕. (You see we can all play the game of mentioning certain games that support our side of the argument).
I'll put it another way, playing Sedgwick as a 'defensive winger' is akin to converting the capability of one of your castles to the limits of a pawn in a game of chess...........🙄.
And to me, it looks like the reason this is done is supposed to make us more solid defensively, when in fact, it probably isn't the team plan at all, it's done simply because the guy hasn't the skill/pace/ability to be a proper offensive wide player.
Roll on next season when hopefully we will have the options of players such as Parry, Treacy, Wallace and Nicholson, and maybe even Mayor to try and actually go forwards with the ball in a meaningful sort of way down the flanks.
Skill, pace and penetration down both touchlines, something that PNE have been missing for years.
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But what you've forgotten is that unlike Ferguson, Irvine, Simpson and Davies, Albertan is a footballing expert who sees Sedgwick play week in week out.
Sludgewick would do a job for Forest Green.
J
jaymo
good analogy 🙄
of course, football being a team game, you could also say that converting that castle into a pawn allows you to convert another pawn, in a more central position, into a castle.
football is about the team as a whole, not about individuals, and the most important area of the pitch (the midfield) is all about balance.
quite frankly, post of the century regarding Sedgwick.
No one who defends him says he is the greatest player in the world, in fact, almost everyone recognises hes a limited player, but they also seem to recognise the game, and more importantly success in the game, is about balance.
Ive asked the question hundreds of times in sedgwick related threads, and no one has ever been able to answer. Can anyone name one single team that has had any success that hasnt had a "water carrier" in midfield? because I cant think of a single one.
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A spirited defence. But water carriers play in the centre, not on the flanks. They sit, break up play, win the ball and pass it to others more capable of doing the hard stuff. None of these apply to Sedgwick not least as he plays on the flank. On the flank, he needs to be one of those that can do some of the hard stuff and he's coming up short
J
jaymo
I agree, id much rather have a spirited, hard working, ball winning, posession keeping central midfield with 2 dynamic wingers as outlets.
But we dont have that midfield, and havent had it for a good while. Coutts and James show signs they may be that, but both are inexperienced (about 15 games between them at this level) and we dont know how they'll perform over a period. But previously we've had
Carter - couldnt win a raffle, let alone a tackle.
Chaplow - industrious, hard working, harrying. cant tackle, poor passer.
Shumi - strong tackler, hard working. Poor passer, awful positional sense.
Nicholson - Much like Carter last season.
McKenna - Hard worker, great in posession. Not a ball winner.
Nicholls - see Shumi, but with better passing.
Unless we solve the Central Midfield conundrum properly, anyone we have the potential to sign will be a failure because of the balance that Sedge provides.
Maybe Whaleys CV got there first
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We have solved the central midfield conundrum. We are not going to sign anyone else for those 2 positions. These 2 young lads are the answer and they will get even better as they get more experience. Hopefully James will be signed on a season's loan next year. The summer dealings will hopefully be to sell Carter and Shumi and bring in replacements as back up to the 2 young lads, on top of Chaplow, Nicholson and Barton.
J
jaymo
Im sure we wont bring anyone else in this year, but if you think its comprehensively solved after 2 games then I think thats a bit short sighted to be honest with you.
I hope it is, Ive been saying that CM is pretty much THE only priority for us to sort out for about 2 or 3 seasons, and while I was impressed with both Coutts and James on saturday (and hearing about them on tuesday), im not convinced that there still isnt work to be done to be honest with you.
Im sure DF is aware of that though, hence the reason a full back was preferred to any of our previous "specialist" midifelders.
spot on.
his lack of pace, trickery, awareness, passing and crossing abilities seems to suggest he's in the team because of his hard work, fitness and defensive qualities rather than as an effective attacking player.
so why does he seem to so unfit, never reads the game to anticipate the play very well and always seems to be on his heels and playing catch up?
no doubt we'll have to endure more of his lumbering up and down usually behind the play at pride park tomorrow allowing our opponents the advantage of a weak and ineffective right flank for them to exploit.
he played well for part of the sheff utd match but was absolutely dire for parts of it too. i keep hoping he'll prove me wrong but i don't hold out much hope.
Totally agree.
Hope Fergie wasn't conned by that RARE decent game against Blades.
At the stroke of the Ninth minute I thought to myself - "He's REVERTED back to TYPE "
OP
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😱
Sooooo, nothing else wrong with the team in that time then jaymo? 🙄
You really don't help yourself do you? 😛
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This just about sums it up as far as i see it.
How many challenges/tackles does Sedge actually put in?
All i see is Sedge chasing shadows, 2-3 yards off the man with the ball when defending, the ball passed either side of him and the original ball player moving to take a return ball leaving Sedge out of the game.
Hard work (however ineffective this is in Sedge's case)should be a given as a pro footballer and is not enough to justify his continued selection.
All this crap about 5 managers continually selecting him meaning those of us without football managing experience are wrong is total BS, yes,they have selected him but football's all about people's opinions how do players become professionals?
I mean managers never get it wrong do they? Why did AI not offer him a new contract over the 2 years he was here and his contract been left to run down? I don't see any evidence/talk of DF seeing him as the future.
He brings little or nothing to us as an attacking force, yes he has a nice touch at times and a trick or two but how often after creating space does he actually get away from a man or put a cross in? Be honest not very often!
Those critisizing the likes of SSL & YM or others for their performance on Saturday are missing the point they have contributed positively over the years far,far more than Sedge.
As someone pointed out on a previous thread, how come none of BD,PS or AI have seen fit to come in for him upon their subsequent appointments at other clubs?
That just about sums up how much these managers rate CS in my view!
J
jaymo
its not really an arument though is it. For a few reasons. Firstly, does the fact simpson and Irvine havent come in for SSL make him a shit player? Or that Brown hasnt gone in for fuller? or as far as im aware, none of Lonergans previous managers have been in for him? or any of the numerous players who havent rejoined with a former manager? The same argument could have been used about mckenna before this year, but an opening for an experienced midfielder came up at Forest, and the rest is history.
Secondly, does anyone really know an ex manager hasnt been in for Sedge? There are plenty of approaches\tentative questions that happen without us knowing. Could it be that tentative approaches were dealt with with a strong bat? who knows.
Thirdly, even if none of our previous managers rate Sedge (and its a big if considering the number of games he played) it still doesnt mean he isnt the best option we have at the minute.
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Jaymo. i've not said anywhere that Sedge is SHIT.
My opinions and views go by what i see, i've no argument that CS works hard but from what i see is he's chasing shadows 99% of the time.
As i said, how many tackles or challenges does he actually make or win( just watch him next time and see how close he actually gets to a man with the ball) how many times does he beat a man or actually get a decent cross in?
People defend Sedge solely on the base of his work rate, but IMHO i don't see how much of a positive contribution this makes!
Also, i'm not saying the managers didn't rate Sedge(obviously they did) the point i was making was that managers/scouts/coaches do get it wrong a hell of a lot, so when people come out and say because a manager picks someone consistently doesn't mean every other persons view is wrong.
It's all about opinions at the end of the day and some people just don't fancy a player and no matter what a player does he'll always be shit!(i remember Ranks getting dog's abuse for 18 months but he proved people wrong) This view is narrow & blinkered and if someone has made it as a professional footballer they must have some talent.
As i pointed out in my first post watch and see if you agree with my observations about whether this is true then comment and either agree or disagree on my views.
My opinions and views go by what i see, i've no argument that CS works hard but from what i see is he's chasing shadows 99% of the time.
As i said, how many tackles or challenges does he actually make or win( just watch him next time and see how close he actually gets to a man with the ball) how many times does he beat a man or actually get a decent cross in?
People defend Sedge solely on the base of his work rate, but IMHO i don't see how much of a positive contribution this makes!
Also, i'm not saying the managers didn't rate Sedge(obviously they did) the point i was making was that managers/scouts/coaches do get it wrong a hell of a lot, so when people come out and say because a manager picks someone consistently doesn't mean every other persons view is wrong.
It's all about opinions at the end of the day and some people just don't fancy a player and no matter what a player does he'll always be shit!(i remember Ranks getting dog's abuse for 18 months but he proved people wrong) This view is narrow & blinkered and if someone has made it as a professional footballer they must have some talent.
As i pointed out in my first post watch and see if you agree with my observations about whether this is true then comment and either agree or disagree on my views.
J
jaymo
I actually think the work rate point isnt so much to justify his place in the side, but more to question why, when we have clearly better players who cant be arsed to put in a shift (Wallace, Carter, Chaplow on occasion, Mellor too) that Sedgwick bears the brunt of peoples hatred. Ill bet my house that most of the people who slate sedge also complain like fuck about "overpaid, workshy footballers".
Ive never maintained that Sedgwick is anything other then a pretty limited player, who clearly contributes something to the team in both defense and attack.
Ive said plenty of times, that every team needs a water carrier. Plenty of sides have limited, but hard working players in their side becasue they are the foundation of success.
to be honest, id be the first to say that just becasue a manager or ex pro says something, it doesnt mean its right. But ...
When you have 4 or 5 managers (all of whom have attained top 10 finishes in this league) who all seem to think he is good enough for this division by playing him regularly, then to be honest, I think you are fighting a losing battle and have to have some substance to your argument against other than "Sedgwick is shit because I think so".
My whole previous post was based on your conclusion that managers dont rate Sedge that much because they havent tried to sign him since. I dont think that proves anything. As for the rest, you are clearly considerably more reasonable then most, and i agree with some of what you say, but whole heartedly disagree with others, that being the main bit really.