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Some credit to Maurice...

Some credit to Maurice...

chorleythehord said:
If you care to read my email I suggest the longer term writing off of the Hemmings debt (that is the same as equity).

I am also asking you what your solution is as you think the current funding model is inappropriate one - I'm saying there is no alternative at the current moment. Going to market - whether debt or equity I state is a non-starter (so do not use the straw man argument) and if you think it is, then you are not in the real world.

We should live in real fear of bank debt and tax arrears, not the Hemmings debt. He is not going to call it in. There would be no point. Though he may one day stop funding - he has already put a £3m a year cap on it.

I am calling you or anyone else a numbskull if you think Hemmings is somehow on the make with his involvement with PNE. Like I did those who droned on about the Legends affair. He is not taking any money out, he is putting it in. Surely anyone can see that. If he is arranging his affairs to get the best tax breaks or whatever and PNE benefit, then I support this until a better alternative comes forward. And I cannot see it.

If you are anti-Hemmings, be careful what you wish for.
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I have given you the alternative. Please read it again. Injecting equity is not the same as 'going to market'. It would just mean Hemmings converting his debt to equity. I thought you were meant to be the clever one eh?

At the moment all he is doing is shuffling money around, loading the balance sheet with debt, so that you and plenty like you think he is actually "putting money in".

But you just keep your blindfold on and hold that "Hemmings is our saviour" banner up high.
 
kc1968 said:
He converts the debt to equity.
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In order to do that, & if you wish to make a quick buck, then your aquisition must have equity in order cash in. PNE's worth, I would imagine to be less than the loans to Trevor. So therefore & if I'm right, Trevor owns something, that put against the loans, is at this moment in time, worthless.
 
kc1968 said:
Yes like shares. He basically recapitalises the business.
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so he could for £3m p/y or say £10m straight off take his ownership from 96% or whatever it is to 98%. Then should there be any value ever in the club he would have an additional 2% of that value?
 
kc1968 said:
Yes like shares. He basically recapitalises the business.
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I think that's what he's attempting to do, but not selling to the fans again. He stated that he has no long term interest in PNE as an owner, but that he was actively seeking investment for the club. Whether that be a partnership of buyers or a sole buyer. The thing is, we don't know.

We have to put our faith in Trevor. In my humble opinion, he's doing what's best for PNE & not himself. You know the man is in a terrible position that I don't envy. If he comes away with a tidy profit, then he'll be slated. If PNE sink, he'll be slated. If he comes away after selling PNE & things go tits up with new owners, he'll be slated. At this time I'm just glad that when all others have foresaken North End, he's the one who didn't, andfor that reason alone he should be applauded.
 
Pardy said:
so he could for £3m p/y or say £10m straight off take his ownership from 96% or whatever it is to 98%. Then should there be any value ever in the club he would have an additional 2% of that value?
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He already owns 100%
 
metalmania said:
I think that's what he's attempting to do, but not selling to the fans again. He stated that he has no long term interest in PNE as an owner, but that he was actively seeking investment for the club. Whether that be a partnership of buyers or a sole buyer. The thing is, we don't know.

We have to put our faith in Trevor. In my humble opinion, he's doing what's best for PNE & not himself. You know the man is in a terrible position that I don't envy. If he comes away with a tidy profit, then he'll be slated. If PNE sink, he'll be slated. If he comes away after selling PNE & things go tits up with new owners, he'll be slated. At this time I'm just glad that when all others have foresaken North End, he's the one who didn't, andfor that reason alone he should be applauded.
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If that is what he is trying to do then great and when he does it i will applaud him. But right now he is loading the club with debt, charging interest and then loaning more money to pay the interest. We will continue to make big losses each year while we have this debt overhang.

Chorleythehord makes a relevant point that Hemmings may be doing this to extract tax benefits and that is something that he might not want to say out loud. But it does make me sick to the back teeth of hearing that Hemmings is "putting money in" to pay the losses when most of these losses arise from the interest payments to... Trevor Hemmings.
 
kc1968 said:
If that is what he is trying to do then great and when he does it i will applaud him. But right now he is loading the club with debt, charging interest and then loaning more money to pay the interest. We will continue to make big losses each year while we have this debt overhang.

Chorleythehord makes a relevant point that Hemmings may be doing this to extract tax benefits and that is something that he might not want to say out loud. But it does make me sick to the back teeth of hearing that Hemmings is "putting money in" to pay the losses when most of these losses arise from the interest payments to... Trevor Hemmings.
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Good points.
 
kc1968 said:
If that is what he is trying to do then great and when he does it i will applaud him. But right now he is loading the club with debt, charging interest and then loaning more money to pay the interest. We will continue to make big losses each year while we have this debt overhang.

Chorleythehord makes a relevant point that Hemmings may be doing this to extract tax benefits and that is something that he might not want to say out loud. But it does make me sick to the back teeth of hearing that Hemmings is "putting money in" to pay the losses when most of these losses arise from the interest payments to... Trevor Hemmings.
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Could you kindly explain what tax benefit there is to putting money into the club to pay interest?

To put money into a business to cover trading losses and use those losses to offset against tax makes sense.

To put money into a business to pay back to yourself money that is taxable makes no sense at all.
 
kc1968 said:
If that is what he is trying to do then great and when he does it i will applaud him. But right now he is loading the club with debt, charging interest and then loaning more money to pay the interest. We will continue to make big losses each year while we have this debt overhang.

Chorleythehord makes a relevant point that Hemmings may be doing this to extract tax benefits and that is something that he might not want to say out loud. But it does make me sick to the back teeth of hearing that Hemmings is "putting money in" to pay the losses when most of these losses arise from the interest payments to... Trevor Hemmings.
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I have to be honest & say that my knowledge is limited about how businesses work or how taxation can work in a company's favour other than what I read in the Mail, plus what you & Chorley have posted. (I've been educated) My humble, but honest opinion is based on Trevor's dealings within the club. I have to assume that Trevor doesn't want to lose money, but perhaps he knows that in the short to medium term that he will, so I can only assume that Trevor uses the system to cut his losses whilst still financing PNE.
There is nobody that can say for definite that this not the case. Conversely, there's nobody to that it is the case. Like most of us I'm just guessing.

Good debate for once & no slagging off either.😱:thumbsup:
 
We trade at a loss before interest payments; Hemmings funds the shortfall. The debate about debt/equity, interest payments is irrelevant.
 
So taking all things into account we would have been better off going into Administration sooner rather than later (when TH decides) as the debt would not have been increasing at the current rate and we would have been relegated anyway.
 
I'M BACK said:
Could you kindly explain what tax benefit there is to putting money into the club to pay interest?

To put money into a business to cover trading losses and use those losses to offset against tax makes sense.

To put money into a business to pay back to yourself money that is taxable makes no sense at all.
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It was Chorleythehord who said it. Why don't you ask him instead of pestering me eh?
 
kc1968 said:
It was Chorleythehord who said it. Why don't you ask him instead of pestering me eh?
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Because you're the one who keeps telling us at every opportunity (as if stating fact) that TH is taking Millions of pounds out of the club in interest payments on his loans.
 
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