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A Few Thoughts

A Few Thoughts

Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
24,663
Like everyone else I am less than happy with the current state of things - recent performances having been at best listless and mediocre and at worst utterly disgraceful. It is even more dismaying given that just a few weeks ago we played really well in the Sunderland match and you got the impression that PH might finally have got the team's act together. I actually thought then that if we could at least keep touch with the play-off places then with a bit of judicious strengthening in January we might make a real push for the top six but now it is more hoping that we can steer clear of the relegation places and then maybe pull away to somewhere a bit safer.

Looking at the reasons for all this they seem to be at the back and in the middle of the team rather than upfront - strikers can't fix fundamental problems of defensive frailty and lack of midfield assertiveness and creativity. Left to feed off scraps they just become increasingly demotivated and ineffective whoever they are.

The fundamental problem with our three-man defence is lack of pace and mobility. Ideally all three players should have those attributes though you can just about get away with having a central 'stopper' provided there is some real agility to either side. Lindsay fits that central description but neither Storey nor Hughes have anything like the supporting capabilities that are required. Now don't get me wrong about Storey I think he has been one of our better players but he is woefully out-of-position and the only place for him in a back three is in the centre of it. But Hughes is just not the player he was and is always likely to be caught in possession.

Meanwhile further ahead Whiteman the odd interception aside is consistently failing to provide any authority or leadership and Potts is just sinking into the morass around him as he inevitably will do because he lacks the force of character needed to rise above it. The consequence is slow predictable football that the opposition finds all too easy to snuff out.

Are there any reasons for optimism at all - I would suggest there are some. Firstly even with present personnel we can and have played much better - most obviously against Burnley and Sunderland - and so we can do again. Secondly we have a full roster of strikers again. Thirdly we have two players Frokjaer and Greenwood who have shown they can unlock defences in this division. A couple of other players Kesler-Hayden with his pace and McCann with his tenacity have also risen above the dross around them.

Yes we have to strengthen in the New Year but the question right now is whether we can make better use of existing resources in the meantime. We could at least try.

In defence with Lindsay seemingly absent for a while there are arguably two alternatives to the back three we saw on Saturday which had a willing but limited frankly Div 1 standard player Whatmough at the centre of it. One would be to move Storey to the centre and flank him with two genuinely mobile players - my suggestions would be Kesler-Hayden and Best. That might lack some physical presence but it would have a lot more mobility and I think we need to pitch Best in and see if he can now make the most of the talent he does have. The other would be to move to a back four with Kesler-Hayden and Best as the fullbacks and Storey partnered with Hughes who no longer has the pace to play at left-back but might make a useful stopgap in the centre.

Further ahead McCann has made himself an automatic choice though obviously we will have to do without him tomorrow and as I said earlier both Frokjaer with his passes and Greenwood with his bursts of pace have shown something of what we need - those two have to start every match if they are available. Hopefully PH's admission that we need more creativity means they will.

So when you put all this together then what you get is that of the ten outfield places six of them should go to Storey, Kesler-Hayden, McCann, Greenwood, Frokjaer and a striker. That leaves four places - three if we play two strikers in which case Frokjaer can remain central with Greenwood moving wider. My prime candidates for those places would be Thordarson who has shown some attacking intent and Best because he will want to impress. After that then depending on the formation Ledson who at least tries and probably Hughes for his experience suggest themselves though at some point we are going to have to see what Okkels can do.

In other words I don't see that this can do any worse than what we saw on Saturday:

Woodman
Kesler-Hayden, Storey, Hughes, Best
Thordarson, Ledson, McCann
Frokjaer, Greenwood
Riis or Osmajic
 
9mk
Like everyone else I am less than happy with the current state of things - recent performances having been at best listless and mediocre and at worst utterly disgraceful. It is even more dismaying given that just a few weeks ago we played really well in the Sunderland match and you got the impression that PH might finally have got the team's act together. I actually thought then that if we could at least keep touch with the play-off places then with a bit of judicious strengthening in January we might make a real push for the top six but now it is more hoping that we can steer clear of the relegation places and then maybe pull away to somewhere a bit safer.

Looking at the reasons for all this they seem to be at the back and in the middle of the team rather than upfront - strikers can't fix fundamental problems of defensive frailty and lack of midfield assertiveness and creativity. Left to feed off scraps they just become increasingly demotivated and ineffective whoever they are.

The fundamental problem with our three-man defence is lack of pace and mobility. Ideally all three players should have those attributes though you can just about get away with having a central 'stopper' provided there is some real agility to either side. Lindsay fits that central description but neither Storey nor Hughes have anything like the supporting capabilities that are required. Now don't get me wrong about Storey I think he has been one of our better players but he is woefully out-of-position and the only place for him in a back three is in the centre of it. But Hughes is just not the player he was and is always likely to be caught in possession.

Meanwhile further ahead Whiteman the odd interception aside is consistently failing to provide any authority or leadership and Potts is just sinking into the morass around him as he inevitably will do because he lacks the force of character needed to rise above it. The consequence is slow predictable football that the opposition finds all too easy to snuff out.

Are there any reasons for optimism at all - I would suggest there are some. Firstly even with present personnel we can and have played much better - most obviously against Burnley and Sunderland - and so we can do again. Secondly we have a full roster of strikers again. Thirdly we have two players Frokjaer and Greenwood who have shown they can unlock defences in this division. A couple of other players Kesler-Hayden with his pace and McCann with his tenacity have also risen above the dross around them.

Yes we have to strengthen in the New Year but the question right now is whether we can make better use of existing resources in the meantime. We could at least try.

In defence with Lindsay seemingly absent for a while there are arguably two alternatives to the back three we saw on Saturday which had a willing but limited frankly Div 1 standard player Whatmough at the centre of it. One would be to move Storey to the centre and flank him with two genuinely mobile players - my suggestions would be Kesler-Hayden and Best. That might lack some physical presence but it would have a lot more mobility and I think we need to pitch Best in and see if he can now make the most of the talent he does have. The other would be to move to a back four with Kesler-Hayden and Best as the fullbacks and Storey partnered with Hughes who no longer has the pace to play at left-back but might make a useful stopgap in the centre.

Further ahead McCann has made himself an automatic choice though obviously we will have to do without him tomorrow and as I said earlier both Frokjaer with his passes and Greenwood with his bursts of pace have shown something of what we need - those two have to start every match if they are available. Hopefully PH's admission that we need more creativity means they will.

So when you put all this together then what you get is that of the ten outfield places six of them should go to Storey, Kesler-Hayden, McCann, Greenwood, Frokjaer and a striker. That leaves four places - three if we play two strikers in which case Frokjaer can remain central with Greenwood moving wider. My prime candidates for those places would be Thordarson who has shown some attacking intent and Best because he will want to impress. After that then depending on the formation Ledson who at least tries and probably Hughes for his experience suggest themselves though at some point we are going to have to see what Okkels can do.

In other words I don't see that this can do any worse than what we saw on Saturday:

Woodman
Kesler-Hayden, Storey, Hughes, Best
Thordarson, Ledson, McCann
Frokjaer, Greenwood
Riis or Osmajic

McCann suspended.So substitute with Frokles.Agree with everything else.
 
Well balanced post. I do worry however that the understandable frustration coming from the stands will put even more pressure on players who are clearly lacking confidence. I like PH but having shipped so many goals recently I fear he is adopting a safety first approach with his team selections which is contra to everything he said when he arrived. The squad can't be too much of a surprise to him as he said on a number of occasions that he knew the majority of players well when he was appointed having managed in the Championship for so long. Still hopeful for a decent season however despite having been at Millwall, Plymouth & Portsmouth recently!
 
Like everyone else I am less than happy with the current state of things - recent performances having been at best listless and mediocre and at worst utterly disgraceful. It is even more dismaying given that just a few weeks ago we played really well in the Sunderland match and you got the impression that PH might finally have got the team's act together. I actually thought then that if we could at least keep touch with the play-off places then with a bit of judicious strengthening in January we might make a real push for the top six but now it is more hoping that we can steer clear of the relegation places and then maybe pull away to somewhere a bit safer.

Looking at the reasons for all this they seem to be at the back and in the middle of the team rather than upfront - strikers can't fix fundamental problems of defensive frailty and lack of midfield assertiveness and creativity. Left to feed off scraps they just become increasingly demotivated and ineffective whoever they are.

The fundamental problem with our three-man defence is lack of pace and mobility. Ideally all three players should have those attributes though you can just about get away with having a central 'stopper' provided there is some real agility to either side. Lindsay fits that central description but neither Storey nor Hughes have anything like the supporting capabilities that are required. Now don't get me wrong about Storey I think he has been one of our better players but he is woefully out-of-position and the only place for him in a back three is in the centre of it. But Hughes is just not the player he was and is always likely to be caught in possession.

Meanwhile further ahead Whiteman the odd interception aside is consistently failing to provide any authority or leadership and Potts is just sinking into the morass around him as he inevitably will do because he lacks the force of character needed to rise above it. The consequence is slow predictable football that the opposition finds all too easy to snuff out.

Are there any reasons for optimism at all - I would suggest there are some. Firstly even with present personnel we can and have played much better - most obviously against Burnley and Sunderland - and so we can do again. Secondly we have a full roster of strikers again. Thirdly we have two players Frokjaer and Greenwood who have shown they can unlock defences in this division. A couple of other players Kesler-Hayden with his pace and McCann with his tenacity have also risen above the dross around them.

Yes we have to strengthen in the New Year but the question right now is whether we can make better use of existing resources in the meantime. We could at least try.

In defence with Lindsay seemingly absent for a while there are arguably two alternatives to the back three we saw on Saturday which had a willing but limited frankly Div 1 standard player Whatmough at the centre of it. One would be to move Storey to the centre and flank him with two genuinely mobile players - my suggestions would be Kesler-Hayden and Best. That might lack some physical presence but it would have a lot more mobility and I think we need to pitch Best in and see if he can now make the most of the talent he does have. The other would be to move to a back four with Kesler-Hayden and Best as the fullbacks and Storey partnered with Hughes who no longer has the pace to play at left-back but might make a useful stopgap in the centre.

Further ahead McCann has made himself an automatic choice though obviously we will have to do without him tomorrow and as I said earlier both Frokjaer with his passes and Greenwood with his bursts of pace have shown something of what we need - those two have to start every match if they are available. Hopefully PH's admission that we need more creativity means they will.

So when you put all this together then what you get is that of the ten outfield places six of them should go to Storey, Kesler-Hayden, McCann, Greenwood, Frokjaer and a striker. That leaves four places - three if we play two strikers in which case Frokjaer can remain central with Greenwood moving wider. My prime candidates for those places would be Thordarson who has shown some attacking intent and Best because he will want to impress. After that then depending on the formation Ledson who at least tries and probably Hughes for his experience suggest themselves though at some point we are going to have to see what Okkels can do.

In other words I don't see that this can do any worse than what we saw on Saturday:

Woodman
Kesler-Hayden, Storey, Hughes, Best
Thordarson, Ledson, McCann
Frokjaer, Greenwood
Riis or Osmajic

Some good points ernest but I think you are flogging a dead horse with Best who can’t even get a sniff despite Brady’s injury.
As for your line up I would agree that moving from a back five would be a chance worth taking.
However I don’t agree with your 3 defensive midfielders sitting in front of them.

I would try,

Woodman
KKH Storey Lindsay (believe he’s touch and go) Hughes
Thordarson Ledson
Greenwood Mads Okkles
Osmajic
 
Agree with much of what Earnest says.
Yes, the frustrating thing with North End is we can play so well away at Burnley, at home against Watford and Sunderland, then be seemingly inept at Plymouth after being 3-0 up and so uncreative after an initially encouraging 25 mins against Derby..
It is simple defensive frailties that is the most frustrating which is about poor decision making and we desperately need a leader in the back four particularly now that Lindsay is injured.
For what it is worth, I felt a little sorry for Whatmough on Saturday. He tried his best to intercept the free kick leading to Derby's goal but actually jumped over and impeded another of our players who was in a better position to attack the ball! Decision Making and knowing your roles!
Also walking the ball upfield and our other players not showing or making runs. That does make his task of passing more difficult.
 
Agree with much of what Earnest says.
Yes, the frustrating thing with North End is we can play so well away at Burnley, at home against Watford and Sunderland, then be seemingly inept at Plymouth after being 3-0 up and so uncreative after an initially encouraging 25 mins against Derby..
It is simple defensive frailties that is the most frustrating which is about poor decision making and we desperately need a leader in the back four particularly now that Lindsay is injured.
For what it is worth, I felt a little sorry for Whatmough on Saturday. He tried his best to intercept the free kick leading to Derby's goal but actually jumped over and impeded another of our players who was in a better position to attack the ball! Decision Making and knowing your roles!
Also walking the ball upfield and our other players not showing or making runs. That does make his task of passing more difficult.

Whatmough did try to give the ball to Whiteman on occasions but he just gave it him back.
 
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