Zoning Out

[Thracia]

Seriously? When did he say that????
Haven't the last three out of five been Dead Ball scenarios?
Bread & Butter stuff, to Fulham's forwards, those, as well

After the Cardiff game: "I am bitterly disappointed to lose to two set-plays. We have, in the main, been very good at [dealing with them]."

 

[Tino]

Seriously? When did he say that????
Haven't the last three out of five been Dead Ball scenarios?
Bread & Butter stuff, to Fulham's forwards, those, as well

Before the last 2 games we'd conceded 3 goals from set pieces in 17 games. So he's right then as long as the last 2 games end up being a blip.

 

[Tino]

This really winds me up, we need at least one player to pick up clearances some where near the half way line, otherwise the ball just gets pinged back into the box every time.

The likelihood of 1 player getting on to any clearance is pretty much zero. Some people just make out like we're the only team to bring everyone back, most do, largely because they've got loads of stats to back up you're betting defending with all players back, which I'd prefer or something that just annoys supporters.

 

[rem]

Before the last 2 games we'd conceded 3 goals from set pieces in 17 games. So he's right then as long as the last 2 games end up being a blip.

It is the players who make individual mistakes rather than the system.
Take the Cardiff game. VDB was completely outmanoeuvred by that big lump McGuiness who scored their first goal.

 

[Fluffs]

The likelihood of 1 player getting on to any clearance is pretty much zero.

It is when everyone is in our box. 😂

At the moment when everyone is back it just automatically allows the opposition a second wave of attack. At least if you have someone out there to put pressure on it gives us more time to settle or possibly hold up the ball.

 

[simo]

Before the last 2 games we'd conceded 3 goals from set pieces in 17 games. So he's right then as long as the last 2 games end up being a blip.

Worth noting that both Middlesbrough and especially Cardiff are above average in terms of set-piece goals. Not sure we should completely rely on that though as I'm not fully clear what is and isn't included on that analyst site!

 

[LostinSpace]

The likelihood of 1 player getting on to any clearance is pretty much zero. Some people just make out like we're the only team to bring everyone back, most do, largely because they've got loads of stats to back up you're betting defending with all players back, which I'd prefer or something that just annoys supporters.

That's just not true, also it's not point. One player is often enough to hold up the opposition attack just long enough for the defence to regroup.

 

[baysidepne]

Be interesting to see how that compares to everyone else, it doesn't feel like a major long term problem to me.

There's a league table on The Analyst and compares the entire league, including by Set Piece Shots (we're 5th worst) and xGA (11th worst) as well as conceded (9th worst).

What I'd take from that is whilst opposition have had 69 shots from Set Pieces, the actual quality of the shot is fairly low (Average of 0.09xG)

Have a look and have a play around with it. Its a decent site.

Season Reviews | The Analyst

dataviz.theanalyst.com

Oh no, I've not seen that website before. I think you might have started another obsession for me. Thanks 🤣

By set pieces are we talking corner, free kicks and throw ins around the box or do they just mean corners specifically do you know?

Is there any way to access the underlying data for that site?

Their data sets look massive, but I only seem to be able to view a few pre-made tables.

Assume there is maybe a subscription service if you want the data as well

It's a great resource made by Opta so you can rely to an extent of the quality. Believe all the stats are coming via Stats Perform which can be a paid subscription for our level (Smarterscout also covers this for a subscription at our level too for even more indepth analytics)

 

[Tino]

That's just not true, also it's not point. One player is often enough to hold up the opposition attack just long enough for the defence to regroup.

It is true, we'd be asking Maguire to cover about 150 yards. The thing it would do is mean the opposition leave 2 back, but most leave 1 anyway with another 25-30 yards from goal. Leaving 3 up every now and then would cause confusion and would be worth trying every now and then.

When we're under pressure and defending a corner the key thing from it is to not concede, not to try and get a goal from the counter. More players around the 25-30 yard mark would make more sense then someone stood isolated on the half way line.

 

[Libertine]

It is true, we'd be asking Maguire to cover about 150 yards. The thing it would do is mean the opposition leave 2 back, but most leave 1 anyway with another 25-30 yards from goal. Leaving 3 up every now and then would cause confusion and would be worth trying every now and then.

When we're under pressure and defending a corner the key thing from it is to not concede, not to try and get a goal from the counter. More players around the 25-30 yard mark would make more sense then someone stood isolated on the half way line.

That sounds like a better idea, doing things differently during a game. For example last weekend against Cardiff when we were clearly struggling to cope with their corners. If we suddenly left two up top that would surely have caused them to have a rethink.

Is this a modern football problem. I kind of see the game trying to take too much from American football with set plays and positions offensive and defensive. Maybe I'll be called a dinosaur but going back 20+ years or so, you would have players on the pitch making decisions and tweaking things during the match as they saw things going on around them. It wouldn't be uncommon to see wingers take the decision to swap wings or a defender making the decision to storm into the box at a corner where he'd previously been staying back. Granted if the opposition then broke, it would be on his shoulders to make sure he got back to where he should have been. But he'd have made the decision to go based on what he'd seen going on in the game, how the opposition had broke previously or the pace of the opposition attack. I don't think players these days have the kind of freedom that they used to have and it's making for a more sterile game.

 

[Tino]

Is this a modern football problem. I kind of see the game trying to take too much from American football with set plays and positions offensive and defensive. Maybe I'll be called a dinosaur but going back 20+ years or so, you would have players on the pitch making decisions and tweaking things during the match as they saw things going on around them. It wouldn't be uncommon to see wingers take the decision to swap wings or a defender making the decision to storm into the box at a corner where he'd previously been staying back.

Exactly what I've been calling for. The players to step up rather than just glancing at the bench. They can get a feel for if something isn't working or if a player is struggling with an opponent. You're right though that seems to have disappeared now with players almost coached for every situation.

 

[LostinSpace]

It is true, we'd be asking Maguire to cover about 150 yards. The thing it would do is mean the opposition leave 2 back, but most leave 1 anyway with another 25-30 yards from goal. Leaving 3 up every now and then would cause confusion and would be worth trying every now and then.

When we're under pressure and defending a corner the key thing from it is to not concede, not to try and get a goal from the counter. More players around the 25-30 yard mark would make more sense then someone stood isolated on the half way line.

I didn't say on the halfway line, I said near. Also, I was talking about having a man there to hold up play if the ball comes out so that it isn't pinged back in straight away. Read my post again.

 

[noelpne]

Frankie/Gally have to do their homework. If the opposition are known to have a high success rate from taking corners or v.forward free kicks, it's gonna be more of a risk leaving more than 1 or 2 as the springboard for the counter. If the oppos. have a poor rate, it's less of a risk....
But the most important thing, IMO, is simply the speed of a counter.
The best model for that was to watch Peter Schmeichel with his fantastic distribution by both throws AND kicks. He knew where a midfielder was, and that guy knew what to do with it after. That's not particularly needing a high level of individual's talent, but perfecting those "drills" on the training ground
- oh, yeh, and keeping that standard.