Back 4

[Former Member]

Our defence is still shit but Maxwell is miles better than Rudd.

We had to defend a lot today, particularly in the second half.

Just because we defended a lot doesn't mean we defended poorly. Yes, Hughes isn't fit to lace Cunningham's boots and Clarke isn't a full back, but our back four was fairly comfortable today, both individually and collectively.

 

[SF]

We had to defend a lot today, particularly in the second half.

Just because we defended a lot doesn't mean we defended poorly. Yes, Hughes isn't fit to lace Cunningham's boots and Clarke isn't a full back, but our back four was fairly comfortable today, both individually and collectively.

Not sure why you've quoted me, I posted that last night.

we defended ok today.

 

[Former Member]

Not sure why you've quoted me, I posted that last night.

we defended ok today.

Wasn't aimed at you bud. Was just a related topic.

 

[Schofe]

Unfortunately the one piece of dire defending lead to an equaliser. Can’t fathom how he had the time to take a touch, turn and shoot in our box! Im sure he was the only Rotherham player in our box too

 

[Tugg Speedman]

Really annoying decision by Neil today, fucking around with the defence yet again. That's 3 different back 4s in the last 3 games.

Clarke IS NOT a right back. As bad a Fisher might be, he's a better right back than Clarke. Why deliberately play someone out of position when you have a perfectly suitable player available? Can't possibly be helpful for Fisher's confidence.

 

[wld]

For someone who isn’t a right back, he’s spent an awful lot of his career playing there. That’s not to say it’s his best position but he’s rarely let us down playing there.

Fisher hasn’t had a good start to the season and was dreadful on Wednesday, so hardly a surprise he was dropped.

 

[llanroc]

I had no problem Neil swapping Fisher with Clarke after wednesday’s game, but I can’t help thinking that Fisher would have made a better fist of things than Clarke when he was played in on the right side of the box twice in the second half.

 

[paolo poggi]

By way of a critical review, I only want to flag up the positioning of players out of their specialist positions, by Ally Neil. Mainly, Clarke as the lone right wing back.
Darnell Fisher is taking hits from some critics and the manager must agree given his decision to omit Fisher from the starting line up versus Rotherham. Clarke is a central defender and a legend at the club in that position. He is not a full back and definitely not a wing back. He is no more adept in that position than would be Louis Moult.
For me, the best sides have specialist full or wing backs and they give the team width and shape and the ability to stretch the opponent on both sides. Despite his apparent mistakes in recent weeks (name one player who isn't effort strewn) Fisher is at least a solid defensive full back who can link up with the player ahead of him and give the team some shape on the right flank to balance what Robinson and Hughes are doing out on the left.
While he is scoring goals, Barkhuizen is worthy of his place, but his second half performance yesterday was at best, non-descript. Robinson crossed several times to the back post, and Barkhuizen was nowhere to be seen to convert.
The point is that they're all making errors, fluffing their passes, and not moving into space for each other, yet Fisher, for me, seems to have been made something of a scapegoat while others seem flavour of the month.
Full back is a key position and in the absence of Cunningham on the left the side is weaker, and with Clarke at right back, that dramatically reduces the threat on that side, going forward, at least.

 

[ernest]

I had no problem Neil swapping Fisher with Clarke after wednesday’s game, but I can’t help thinking that Fisher would have made a better fist of things than Clarke when he was played in on the right side of the box twice in the second half.

Clarke wasn't played in though there were a couple of occasions when he might have been but the pass to him was overhit. I thought Clarke did well at right-back yesterday and we looked a lot less vulnerable there than we did on Wednesday - remember their goal came when they got through to the byeline on our left. Yes we need to find a settled back four but the blunt fact is that the back line that AN seemed to settle on - Fisher, Huntington, Davies, Hughes - has leaked goals continuously partially through poor defending at times, partially through bad luck and partially because it seemed to get into a mindset where it expected to concede. On the two recent occasions when Clarke has played - whether in central defence or at right-back - against Wigan and Rotherham we have looked more solid and let in just one goal and I think that is because apart from his own qualities as a defender mainly his tough tackling and despite his deficiencies most obviously a lack of real pace he does exert some leadership that makes other players up their act a bit. Frankly Storey has not let us down and that penalty at Hull was more of an accidental collision than a foul. It may be that this situation will not resolve itself until the New Year when hopefully we will sign another right-back on a permanent deal and maybe on loan a central defender with more experience than Storey and more mobility than Huntington.

 

[Walton]

I think I could be correct in thinking that Clarke and Storey are the only pair to keep a clean sheet. It’s amazing after their efforts last season how poor the defence has been particularly the Huntington Davies combo!

 

[Mancunian White]

I think I could be correct in thinking that Clarke and Storey are the only pair to keep a clean sheet. It’s amazing after their efforts last season how poor the defence has been particularly the Huntington Davies combo!

Clarke and Davies did on opening day, and Davies and Storey against Leeds in the cup

 

[Mancunian White]

By way of a critical review, I only want to flag up the positioning of players out of their specialist positions, by Ally Neil. Mainly, Clarke as the lone right wing back.
Darnell Fisher is taking hits from some critics and the manager must agree given his decision to omit Fisher from the starting line up versus Rotherham. Clarke is a central defender and a legend at the club in that position. He is not a full back and definitely not a wing back. He is no more adept in that position than would be Louis Moult.
For me, the best sides have specialist full or wing backs and they give the team width and shape and the ability to stretch the opponent on both sides. Despite his apparent mistakes in recent weeks (name one player who isn't effort strewn) Fisher is at least a solid defensive full back who can link up with the player ahead of him and give the team some shape on the right flank to balance what Robinson and Hughes are doing out on the left.
While he is scoring goals, Barkhuizen is worthy of his place, but his second half performance yesterday was at best, non-descript. Robinson crossed several times to the back post, and Barkhuizen was nowhere to be seen to convert.
The point is that they're all making errors, fluffing their passes, and not moving into space for each other, yet Fisher, for me, seems to have been made something of a scapegoat while others seem flavour of the month.
Full back is a key position and in the absence of Cunningham on the left the side is weaker, and with Clarke at right back, that dramatically reduces the threat on that side, going forward, at least.

I agree with most of that but Clarke is hardly a one position player. His main position is obviously centre half but arguably the 2 games that made him a Preston legend, Blackpool and Wembley, he was playing at Rightback.

Different games require different strategies. Clarke is a defender and Fisher is a complete full back. Rotherham wanted to sit deep and win set pieces. Clarke is better than fisher in this regard as he's stronger and taller, and has the concentration that fisher lacks so he's less likely to lose his man in the box.

​​​​

 

[Oldbutnotdone]

I genuinely feel there is more stability across the back. Agreed there are some irritating errors contributing to goals this time around. To be fair however once own goals, worldies and penalties have been crossed off and acknowledging that we have played the most free scoring teams in the division then it's not as bad as it seems.

I agree that the chopping and changing is not in any way shape or form helping anyone, some if not the majority of this issue lies with the manager. (Injuries acknowledged)

The generalisation around younger lads is their strength in adversity, experience but more importantly maturity with age helps to maintain confidence and performance without fear of being scapegoated. l remain convinced that badly directed criticism by the Manager, media and some fans last season was excessive and has played a part in the confidence levels on the field. Players will remember and take note of how best to be selected for the next game.

(Interestingly I have been told that way back against Oldham pre-season the last game for the starting 11 selection the lads were woeful - nerves maybe!)

Fisher is the latest example. I note that he is reportedly carrying an injury hence not playing so hopefully he retains the confidence of the manager but for sure he us picking up some serious criticism.

Beyond the conspiracy theory -

Clarke and Huntington are both guilty of playing to hide their performance worries the big concern for me is how they are dropping off early deep into the six yard at times just to get a run at the ball from crossed balls. This extends at early dropping off so as not to be done for pace. The box has become crowded, predominantly zonal and confused.

We are definately playing deeper whilst defending which gives the advantage to the attacking team. They face less offside, less pressure delivering the final pass/cross, more space to attack the ball and nearer the target. Every little error is now very dangerous and we seem to face a lot more shots on target than we did at our best last season.

I am glad to see more defensive effort from the top end of the field something I have been a little critical of late, unfortunately there is still a gap between the attacking lads and our defensive line.

Where has the possession through midfield gone and why is AN insisting on going long when we all know we are struggling to receive the ball up there at the moment. it just comes straight back way to often.

I am fairly confident that Davies and Storey are our future middle pairing. Fisher is a decent player who can play very well in a high press (we are not playing identifiable high press just now) but I have become increasingly doubtful over Hughes but again I wonder if he is better suited to a game style that we hoped to play rather than the one we do play.

 

[paolo poggi]

I agree with most of that but Clarke is hardly a one position player. His main position is obviously centre half but arguably the 2 games that made him a Preston legend, Blackpool and Wembley, he was playing at Rightback.

Different games require different strategies. Clarke is a defender and Fisher is a complete full back. Rotherham wanted to sit deep and win set pieces. Clarke is better than fisher in this regard as he's stronger and taller, and has the concentration that fisher lacks so he's less likely to lose his man in the box.

​​​​

Clarke's key contributions have been at centre back.
You seem to imply that you think that the strategy of playing Clarke at right wing back, versus Rotherham yesterday, was a successful strategy? You must be easily pleased.
I wouldn't describe a 1-1 draw and a flaccid second half performance as a success, and the lack of an attacking option on the right flank side was a key factor in that. Perhaps that wasn't the fault of Clarke, but Clarke makes mistakes as Fisher does. I suggest that people are looking for Fisher to mess up. Fisher's card is marked ('make one more mistake and you're dropped, son'), whilst Clarke has earned the right to mess up a few times (because of the general perception of the player and the man).
No offence to Clarke but he never appears (to me) comfortable at full-back, or with ball at feet for too long, unless I've been watching the wrong footballer for the last few years.

Perhaps Neil thought his team has enough of an attacking threat already, so he has put Clarke in mainly as a right side defender to stop leaking goals. If so, there was absolutely no forward option down the right, due to the Rotherham left-back having Barkhuizen in his back pocket for the entire second half.

 

[paolo poggi]

I genuinely feel there is more stability across the back. Agreed there are some irritating errors contributing to goals this time around. To be fair however once own goals, worldies and penalties have been crossed off and acknowledging that we have played the most free scoring teams in the division then it's not as bad as it seems.

I agree that the chopping and changing is not in any way shape or form helping anyone, some if not the majority of this issue lies with the manager. (Injuries acknowledged)

I am fairly confident that Davies and Storey are our future middle pairing. Fisher is a decent player who can play very well in a high press (we are not playing identifiable high press just now) but I have become increasingly doubtful over Hughes but again I wonder if he is better suited to a game style that we hoped to play rather than the one we do play.

Decent post.
I think the Rotherham manager (Paul Warne) did a job on Ally Neil from half-time onwards yesterday. They put a man tight on Pearson and North End didn't really have an answer. Rotherham gave Preston a lot of respect, arrived ready for a battle, defended with spirit and blocked our main threats. Arguably, Brentford made it a bit easier for North End, either because of, or despite their loftier league position, because they were either still on the coach or gave North End no respect for the first 30 minutes.

 

[Oldbutnotdone]

I think the Rotherham manager (Paul Warne) did a job on Ally Neil from half-time onwards yesterday. They put a man tight on Pearson and North End didn't really have an answer. Rotherham gave Preston a lot of respect, arrived ready for a battle, defended with spirit and blocked our main threats. Arguably, Brentford made it a bit easier for North End, either because of, or despite their loftier league position, because they were either still on the coach or gave North End no respect for the first 30 minutes.

Yep agree, I didn't realise whilst watching if I am honest re Pearson but here at home with my toasty slippers on you have a definate point.

 

[Mancunian White]

Clarke's key contributions have been at centre back.
You seem to imply that you think that the strategy of playing Clarke at right wing back, versus Rotherham yesterday, was a successful strategy? You must be easily pleased.
I wouldn't describe a 1-1 draw and a flaccid second half performance as a success, and the lack of an attacking option on the right flank side was a key factor in that. Perhaps that wasn't the fault of Clarke, but Clarke makes mistakes as Fisher does. I suggest that people are looking for Fisher to mess up. Fisher's card is marked ('make one more mistake and you're dropped, son'), whilst Clarke has earned the right to mess up a few times (because of the general perception of the player and the man).
No offence to Clarke but he never appears (to me) comfortable at full-back, or with ball at feet for too long, unless I've been watching the wrong footballer for the last few years.

Perhaps Neil thought his team has enough of an attacking threat already, so he has put Clarke in mainly as a right side defender to stop leaking goals. If so, there was absolutely no forward option down the right, due to the Rotherham left-back having Barkhuizen in his back pocket for the entire second half.

Clarke wasn't played as a wingback. He was played as a fullback. Classically a fullback's job is to defend, and that was what Clarke was employed to do.

Honestly I didn't follow the match past the first half so I can't say too much about it but it was successful in the first half. The fualt lies with Neil really as he didn't adapt to Rotherham's new plan in the second half. Clarke did exactly what he was brought in to do: defend.

 

[Former Member]

Clarke wasn't played as a wingback. He was played as a fullback. Classically a fullback's job is to defend, and that was what Clarke was employed to do.

Honestly I didn't follow the match past the first half so I can't say too much about it but it was successful in the first half. The fualt lies with Neil really as he didn't adapt to Rotherham's new plan in the second half. Clarke did exactly what he was brought in to do: defend.

I didn't think Clarke's performance was bad.

Like Hunts, you know what you're gonna get and you know what you aren't going to get. His distribution is poor but he deals with long balls in the air pretty well. The problem yesterday wasn't the back four.

 

[SF]

Clarke was dodgy in open play but he made a big contribution when defending set pieces, and there were a lot.

That's why he was brought in imo, Rotherham were a big side.

 

[simo]

sf - Very good point, one i've tried to make myself in the past. Its also been pointed out previously, not by me, that the loss of Hugill has made a difference defending set pieces.