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Billy Davies v The rest

Billy Davies v The rest

Fibber McGee said:
Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. The likes of Joe Royle and even the great Brian Clough prove that.

Davies has been manager at 4 clubs and has fallen out with the chairman/directors at every one. His only real success has been to get Derby promoted and the following season his performance in the Premiership was pathetic. He bottled the Play Offs twice with us and twice with Forest. His team selection and behaviour in the Leeds home leg was bizarre to say the least and had the hallmark of a man who had lost it. The way he treated the club and the fans when he left was a total disgrace and showed a complete lack of respect. 'Billy Davies', as he often refers to himself, in the third person, cares only about Billy Davies. I have serious doubts about his stability.

Hemmings has made some serious errors of judgement as regards PNE; to re-appoint Davies would be his biggest by far.
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Post of the century.
 
Fibber McGee said:
Your opinion and you are of course entitled to it, as I am to mine, without you questioning my sanity. Talking of which....I notice you've chosen to ignore my comments regarding his character/stability. The man is an egomaniac. Put him and Ridsdale together and I am convinced it will end in tears.
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Sorry got a bit excitable with all the 'breaking news' this evening. I got as far as 'only real success at Derby' and felt the need to reply!

I don't dispute your other points though. It may well end in tears. I raised the same points myself on the unsworth to leave thread. What is to stop billy walking again or 'wanting to talk to someone out f respect'! I agree he is an egomaniac and I know problems may follow but he's a better manager than you're prepared to give him credit for.
 
GetTheMeasure said:
As a big fan of Davies (for all his obvious faults) I'd still suggest a bit of context is necessary. He inherited a team that was superb on paper
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Are you sure about the "superb" team that Davies inherited?

The last 22 games under Craig Brown resulted in the following: 3 wins, 8 draws, and 11 defeats, which equates to a total return of 17 points.

Yes, that is SEVENTEEN POINTS in the last 22 games...........are you sure the team that Billy Davies inherited was "superb"?

Under BD PNE went on to earn 152 pts in 87 league games...........that was superb, but I don't think that a team who has won just 3 of it's last 22 league games could seriously be described as "superb"?

So it is easy to come out with words like "suberb", and that Billy Davies inherited a "superb" team, but the facts do not support what you wrote..........do they?

That is why I stick to the facts, stick to the numbers, as they cannot be disputed.

Billy Davies inherited a "superb" team.............bullshit he did.....on paper or no.
 
Albertan said:
Are you sure about the "superb" team that Davies inherited?

The last 22 games under Craig Brown resulted in the following: 3 wins, 8 draws, and 11 defeats, which equates to a total return of 17 points.

Yes, that is SEVENTEEN POINTS in the last 22 games...........are you sure the team that Billy Davies inherited was "superb"?

Under BD PNE went on to earn 152 pts in 87 league games...........that was superb, but I don't think that a team who has won just 3 of it's last 22 league games could seriously be described as "superb"?

So it is easy to come out with words like "suberb", and that Billy Davies inherited a "superb" team, but the facts do not support what you wrote..........do they?

That is why I stick to the facts, stick to the numbers, as they cannot be disputed.

Billy Davies inherited a "superb" team.............bullshit he did.....on paper or no.
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Albertan - he inherited a team that was less than the sum of its parts and turned it into one that was either equal to or slightly greater than. He deserves great credit for this and on the whole I'm a fan of Davies, but just think about this for a minute.

Alexander/Mears
Davidson
Claude/Mawene/Lucketti
O Neill/McKenna
Lewis
Cresswell

All quality (probably under-performing) players who were here when Billy took the job. Full credit on Nash and Nugent in particular, but let's not pretend that team was really relegation fodder or anywhere near.
 
Fibber McGee said:
I would have preferred him not to have bottled two Play Off campaigns and to have got us promoted. Of course, he blamed lack of financial backing (as he did at Derby and Forest), conveniently ignoring the fact that we were clearly a superior team to West Ham, who we had already beaten twice that season and yet completely froze in the final.
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Nice come back, but you failed to answer the question posed.

I will repeat it again..............would you have preferred a 46 game battle against relegation (because that is what it was looking like with a team that had won just 3 of it's past 22 games under Craig Brown when BD took over) or losing in the play off final to West Ham?

Just a simple answer will suffice........you have one choice or the other.
 
pne-madrid said:
Wasn't it the plan that if we win the pay offs I'll have to stay and get relegated with PNE next season, fail in the play offs and I can leave and get a bigger club. I'm convinced he chucked the semi final as doing it in the final would have been more obvious with the media coverage.
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Yes, yes that's what he did! FFS sometimes I wonder just what planet people live on. Are you Deany's alter ego?
 
pne-madrid said:
Wasn't it the plan that if we win the pay offs I'll have to stay and get relegated with PNE next season, fail in the play offs and I can leave and get a bigger club. I'm convinced he chucked the semi final as doing it in the final would have been more obvious with the media coverage.
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Suggesting that a player or coach would deliberately throw a match is a massive deal as you'll know.

Can't say 100% that he didn't and that it was a poor team selection built on honest mistakes. Only Billy himself knows the truth and I think (hope) you're well wide of the target.
 
Fibber McGee said:
I would have preferred him not to have bottled two Play Off campaigns and to have got us promoted. Of course, he blamed lack of financial backing (as he did at Derby and Forest), conveniently ignoring the fact that we were clearly a superior team to West Ham, who we had already beaten twice that season and yet completely froze in the final.
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Didn't we beat them on three occasions before the play off finals? One being a cup match. In the final their goalie should have been sent off but was carried off so the referee bottled it. Even though the PNE players let the big occasion get to them we were still the better team although history will show otherwise.
 
GetTheMeasure said:
Albertan - he inherited a team that was less than the sum of its parts and turned it into one that was either equal to or slightly greater than. He deserves great credit for this and on the whole I'm a fan of Davies, but just think about this for a minute.

Alexander/Mears
Davidson
Claude/Mawene/Lucketti
O Neill/McKenna
Lewis
Cresswell

All quality (probably under-performing) players who were here when Billy took the job. Full credit on Nash and Nugent in particular, but let's not pretend that team was really relegation fodder or anywhere near.
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I know where you are coming from, and for sure, when Billy took over we had some decent players, but please do not tell me that a team (and that is what we are talking about here, not some good individuals) who had taken just 17 points from it's last 22 league games was not really relegation fodder (whatever that means as it was your phrase, not mine).

Here are the facts: The team that Billy Davies took over were averaging over the past almost half a season (22 games is just one short of a half a season) .77 pts per game..........that over a full season equates to approx 35 pts. Please show me where a team who finish a season with 35 pts retains it's championship status.

It is often better when one keeps out personal thoughts, or emotions when answering such questions.

Of course we were looking like relegation fodder............3 wins in 22 games and you say that Billy Davies inherited a "superb team" (on paper). I think I will stick to the facts on this one if it's all the same to you.
 
GetTheMeasure said:
Suggesting that a player or coach would deliberately throw a match is a massive deal as you'll know.

Can't say 100% that he didn't and that it was a poor team selection built on honest mistakes. Only Billy himself knows the truth and I think (hope) you're well wide of the target.
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Yes probably harsh as no manager would do that but I think that his relationship with the board by that time had broken down so his mind wasn't on getting PNE promoted but where he was going next.
 
Albertan said:
I know where you are coming from, and for sure, when Billy took over we had some decent players, but please do not tell me that a team (and that is what we are talking about here, not some good individuals) who had taken just 17 points from it's last 22 league games was not really relegation fodder (whatever that means as it was your phrase, not mine).

Here are the facts: The team that Billy Davies took over were averaging over the past almost half a season (22 games is just one short of a half a season) .77 pts per game..........that over a full season equates to approx 35 pts. Please show me where a team who finish a season with 35 pts retains it's championship status.

It is often better when one keeps out personal thoughts, or emotions when answering such questions.

Of course we were looking like relegation fodder............3 wins in 22 games and you say that Billy Davies inherited a "superb team" (on paper). I think I will stick to the facts on this one if it's all the same to you.
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Appreciate the reply Albertan

Prior to that pretty dreadful run, we'd also been fourth in the league in January, had just won 1-2 away at West Ham while playing some seriously progressive football and were a gimme against Swansea away from the last 16 of the FA Cup. Fuller and Cresswell had a great partnership going and we were bang in form.

Of course, we lost that game at Swansea in a terrible upset and the wheels fell off from there.

I think the players lacked the physical conditioning and mental toughness to sustain that top six form for a whole season, but the facts also illustrate that those players had that level of performance in them. Clearly there was something wrong in terms of organisation, fitness and what players got up to off-field, but they'd already shown in the first two-thirds of the previous campaign that a run at the play-offs was not an unrealistic aim.

Billy brought the organisation, discipline and fitness on board, two great signings in Nash and Nugent and then we were delivering those levels consistently. Maximum credit to him for that.
 
Albertan said:
You write about him bottling play offs but when he first took control of PNE we had just 4 pts from the first 5 games and were languishing very close to bottom place in the division..................but all you can do is point out that he bottled the play offs?

What would you have preferred that season, a 46 game battle to retain championship status?
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Whilst agreeing with a lot of what you have written on this thread, I am pretty certain that Billy himself has expressed regret about the West Ham game. He wanted to drop Nugent and play Alexander in midfield because he thought Nugent was tired and also because he wanted to nullify their midfield. He didn't make that (admittedly huge) call because of the reaction it would get and has since said he wishes he had.

If my memory serves correctly, that could be classed as bottling.
 
I've said my piece already in this thread but the main things for me are that people on here are clouding two different issues.

Is billy Davies a very good football manager with a good record? Undoubtedly yes.

Is billy Davies an absolute ego-maniac who screwed us over in a rather unsavoury fashion? Yes

Some people dislike him for that and therefore they try and find failings in Billy's record which aren't really there.

If there's any truth in him coming back then it will be interesting to see how he goes without Ned Kelly. Clough suffered without Taylor..... Sometimes the partnerships complement each other and it may not be the same were one to be absent.
 
iamaternenthat_ said:
I've said my piece already in this thread but the main things for me are that people on here are clouding two different issues.

Is billy Davies a very good football manager with a good record? Undoubtedly yes.

Is billy Davies an absolute ego-maniac who screwed us over in a rather unsavoury fashion? Yes

Some people dislike him for that and therefore they try and find failings in Billy's record which aren't really there.

If there's any truth in him coming back then it will be interesting to see how he goes without Ned Kelly. Clough suffered without Taylor..... Sometimes the partnerships complement each other and it may not be the same were one to be absent.
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He got Derby promoted in 2006/7 whilst Kelly was on gardening leave so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 
JK said:
Can you make it a New Years resolution to stop posting pointless stats?
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Give the guy a break. He can't go to matches cos he lives in Canada so can't really comment first hand on how the team played so posting pointless stats is his only way of contributing.
 
Albertan said:
I know where you are coming from, and for sure, when Billy took over we had some decent players, but please do not tell me that a team (and that is what we are talking about here, not some good individuals) who had taken just 17 points from it's last 22 league games was not really relegation fodder (whatever that means as it was your phrase, not mine).

Here are the facts: The team that Billy Davies took over were averaging over the past almost half a season (22 games is just one short of a half a season) .77 pts per game..........that over a full season equates to approx 35 pts. Please show me where a team who finish a season with 35 pts retains it's championship status.

It is often better when one keeps out personal thoughts, or emotions when answering such questions.

Of course we were looking like relegation fodder............3 wins in 22 games and you say that Billy Davies inherited a "superb team" (on paper). I think I will stick to the facts on this one if it's all the same to you.
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That season fell away towards the end with a lot of draws in games to nothing. The facts are that many players in that squad went on to prove themselves as Premier or very good Championship players. The problem seemed to be a lack of belief in Brown. Davies did well to turn it round considering he was part of the previous regime. But many others could have done the same with the quality of the squad.
 
iamaternenthat_ said:
I've said my piece already in this thread but the main things for me are that people on here are clouding two different issues.

Is billy Davies a very good football manager with a good record? Undoubtedly yes.
Is billy Davies an absolute ego-maniac who screwed us over in a rather unsavoury fashion? Yes

Some people dislike him for that and therefore they try and find failings in Billy's record which aren't really there.

If there's any truth in him coming back then it will be interesting to see how he goes without Ned Kelly. Clough suffered without Taylor..... Sometimes the partnerships complement each other and it may not be the same were one to be absent.
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I certainly disagree with the "undoubtedly" bit. Billy enjoyed great success at PNE and had probably peaked and then left a scorched earth for his successor. At Derby he spent £5m and got them promoted so all credit to him for that. But then he blew £12m on transfers and another £13m in wages in the Prem, asked for even more and got sacked after an appalling set of results.

At Forest, he took an underperforming side and got them going. But having outspent the rest of the division on transfers and wages for 2 seasons, their chairman had every right to expect something better than play off defeats.

The worst aspect of it all his Davies' nauseating propaganda which unfortunately fools some of the dumber fans. At each club he has managed, he has inflated his own abilities by belittled the club concerned (eg "little Preston"), states that he has "overachieved" with the resources he has and complains about lack of signings despite signing lots of players.
 
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