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Goals / Formation.

Goals / Formation.

Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

PNE-ONLINE Boxing Expert.
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Jun 7, 2004
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I put this on the Osmajic thread but it'll get lost on there and what I have posted below is quite concerning. So I have given it a thread of its own because it is, imo, a serious issue that needs addressing and the Osmajic thread doesn't need cluttering up.

Looking forward to the replies which I expect to be mixed.
.......................................................................................................................

When your biggest win is 3-0 v a team on -7 Points with just one win all season.

We simply don't wipe the floor with any team. We don't dominate for 2/3s of a game, it is a 45m domination at best.

Play 4231 at home.

The 3 1 section being Devine, Dobbin, Lang behind Osmajic.

We have only won by 2 clear goals 3 times this season in 32 League Games.

All by 2-0.

Charlton (h)
Southampton (a)
Bristol City (a)

Trying to win by just the one goal isn't sustainable over the longer term hence 20 Draws last season and currently 12 this season.

Either the formation needs changing or the personnel do. I am leaning towards the formation changing for the benefit of the players.

But it won't happen long term under this manager. Fixated with 352.
 
We're regressing.

Hecky lost me yesterday, I am now officially a cynic.

I don't like the lack of chances, the lack of goals and the substitutions are sometimes questionable.

The defence is poor, and he is now blowing a good chance.

Lang and Osmajic may save him, along with Iverson, but his playing out from the back is miserable and dangerous.
 
Were never going to dominate teams because we can't afford a team full of great footballers. Usually more well funded sides will have better quality on the ball.

That means we don't generate as much possession or attacking pressure as other sides at this level. We do a lot of our best work on the transition, because it's cheaper to find players who can disrupt than it is those who can create.
 
I'd be losing McCann in home games, with a midfield of Whiteman & Devine, then Lang or Moran behind the two strikers. It's not good enough at Deepdale. Too many defensive players on the pitch at any one time.

Ideally we'd rarely see a back three at home as well, but we're too wedded to it.
 
HunterLionheart said:
Were never going to dominate teams because we can't afford a team full of great footballers. Usually more well funded sides will have better quality on the ball.

That means we don't generate as much possession or attacking pressure as other sides at this level. We do a lot of our best work on the transition, because it's cheaper to find players who can disrupt than it is those who can create.
Click to expand...

Indeed

Physicality is cheap, technical ability costs
 
Hecky hasn't even nearly lost me.

We aren't great.

But we have sat through much, much worse than this. We are almost safe in February!!

One thing, for me, is that we were more attacking and dominant when we had no options on the bench, and the team was picking itself up (at the beginning of the season).

As soon as we have options, it feels like form and performance dips. Wondering if the squad dynamic changes when you have a bunch of fully fit first-teamers on the bench?

One of the worries yesterday was the return of ponderous passing across the backline and to the keeper. I get it. They go 2-1 up and sit deep, so we have to try and pull them out. But wow, was it ugly on the eye. Turgid, ponderous garbage.

Not the whole game. But enough to give me Lowe flashbacks.

It feels like they are aware that they were losing possession cheaply (and they were), and thought I may as well take an easy sideways pass so I don't get bollocked.
 
I’d hoped the return of Gibson would see us more on the front foot but he’s been awful. Lacking confidence or fitness, but his default body position under no pressure was facing Cornell who had to keep pushing him forward
 
Watford DID change it at half-time. They had to be proactive & we didn't have to be proactive.
So when Watford's pro-activitity reaps some rewards ( for their new manager's very 1st game ) - Hecky is forced to react .
What he didn't do is change players when PNE were 1-0 up.
Should he have changed things when his team were 1-0 up ?
You can't assume anything of what your opponents manager might do, but only react to their changes.
He's got 3 options, the first one is to do nowt.
His 2nd option is for him to substitute to go to a more defensive option - to 'sit' on the (mere) one goal advantage , whilst the 3rd is to go to a more attacking formation/players.
What would you do, against a 'middling' to 'fair' side that's going equal on points IF they'd won ?
Hecky chose to 'stick' & then change it after the brace of goals.
 
Jack Daniels said:
I put this on the Osmajic thread but it'll get lost on there and what I have posted below is quite concerning. So I have given it a thread of its own because it is, imo, a serious issue that needs addressing and the Osmajic thread doesn't need cluttering up.

Looking forward to the replies which I expect to be mixed.
.......................................................................................................................

When your biggest win is 3-0 v a team on -7 Points with just one win all season.

We simply don't wipe the floor with any team. We don't dominate for 2/3s of a game, it is a 45m domination at best.

Play 4231 at home.

The 3 1 section being Devine, Dobbin, Lang behind Osmajic.

We have only won by 2 clear goals 3 times this season in 32 League Games.

All by 2-0.

Charlton (h)
Southampton (a)
Bristol City (a)

Trying to win by just the one goal isn't sustainable over the longer term hence 20 Draws last season and currently 12 this season.

Either the formation needs changing or the personnel do. I am leaning towards the formation changing for the benefit of the players.

But it won't happen long term under this manager. Fixated with 352.
Click to expand...
For me the manager is a typical British manager who are brought up on not to lose first and try and win second. So when we are winning by 1 or 2 his instincts is to shut the back door and not the let opposition in and not go and put the game to bed.
Going 5 games unbeaten sounds good but in reality you may as well win 3 and lose 2 and be better off points wise.
 
Jack Daniels said:
I put this on the Osmajic thread but it'll get lost on there and what I have posted below is quite concerning. So I have given it a thread of its own because it is, imo, a serious issue that needs addressing and the Osmajic thread doesn't need cluttering up.

Looking forward to the replies which I expect to be mixed.
.......................................................................................................................

When your biggest win is 3-0 v a team on -7 Points with just one win all season.

We simply don't wipe the floor with any team. We don't dominate for 2/3s of a game, it is a 45m domination at best.

Play 4231 at home.

The 3 1 section being Devine, Dobbin, Lang behind Osmajic.

We have only won by 2 clear goals 3 times this season in 32 League Games.

All by 2-0.

Charlton (h)
Southampton (a)
Bristol City (a)

Trying to win by just the one goal isn't sustainable over the longer term hence 20 Draws last season and currently 12 this season.

Either the formation needs changing or the personnel do. I am leaning towards the formation changing for the benefit of the players.

But it won't happen long term under this manager. Fixated with 352.
Click to expand...
Said this in the match day thread, instead we ended up playing some weird diamond with McCann on the right which resulted in a knackered Offiah.

Although my wide 2 would be Dobbin and Lang. Devine in the 10.
 
OB1 said:
I’d hoped the return of Gibson would see us more on the front foot but he’s been awful. Lacking confidence or fitness, but his default body position under no pressure was facing Cornell who had to keep pushing him forward
Click to expand...
Yet last week he received numerous extremely positive comments (including from myself) for a very solid performance. Watfords first goal was Offiah’s error allowing him to cut inside and Gibson certainly wasn't at fault for their 2nd either, but you decide to single him out.
 
Jack Daniels said:
But it won't happen long term under this manager. Fixated with 352.
Click to expand...
The 3 at the back formation is now firmly welded into the fabric of the club, all overseen by one man - Ridsdale. As things stand he'll be the one to choose the next manager, whenever that will be, and he will pick a manager who buys into that way of playing because Ridsdale won't sanction the signing of any other type of defender.

You have to go to pre- COVID days to when we had the players capable of playing a back four - it could be argued that our last decent pair of full-backs playing in tandem were Fisher and Cunningham.

Its shite to watch, ultimately over a season leads to between 65 and 50 points each season but somehow pleases the Hemmings and pulls the wool over Revitts eyes because it leads to over a decade in the Championship costing them over £100 million with all to show for it being an FA Cup quarter final match - with in the end turned into another non-event.
 
IanBogie9 said:
We're regressing.

Hecky lost me yesterday, I am now officially a cynic.

I don't like the lack of chances, the lack of goals and the substitutions are sometimes questionable.

The defence is poor, and he is now blowing a good chance.

Lang and Osmajic may save him, along with Iverson, but his playing out from the back is miserable and dangerous.
Click to expand...

Defence is poor? Only 4 teams in the league have conceded fewer. And that’s with losing Gibson, Hughes and Iversen for significant chunks.

By my money, that is pretty good going down your 2nd and 3rd best defenders and best goalkeeper.

We’re heading in to the run-in level out of the playoffs on goal difference, competing with sides who are spending vast sums.

Wrexham, Derby etc all spent big. Watford’s midfield pairing of Kayembe and Louza cost them in the region of £15m.

Hecky has proved that with backing he can get teams promoted from this division, and he’s doing a damn good job of getting us pretty close without any real backing
 
OB1 said:
I’d hoped the return of Gibson would see us more on the front foot but he’s been awful. Lacking confidence or fitness, but his default body position under no pressure was facing Cornell who had to keep pushing him forward
Click to expand...
Agreed, he'd been pretty poor on his return but thought he'd turned a corner at Ipswich but some real sloppiness in possession yesterday as well.

When he signed I thought he'd be the natural successor to Hughes at LCB but his best performances have probably been at CCB. I think Hughes natural tendencies at LB help him out in that role. Sadly his return coincided with Hughes being out. Tough call but hopefully Hughes will return to LCB now then a decision on Gibson and Storey needed.
 
Mental post really. Completely agree it would be great for us to blow teams away, but to expect it, when we have the fifth lowest wage bill in the league or something, is a bit weird.

The management team are doing a terrific job, with minimal backing compared to the rest of the league, and a god awful pitch which negates our main threat.
 
Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion that’s the purpose of a forum, and with no ill meaning I think some fans are over exaggerating our predicament in replacment of hope and feelings.

Hecky is arguably a manager far too good for us. Is he perfect? absolutely not, does he make mistakes? Yes. Does it cost us? sometimes.

But in reality, I cannot of seen another manager who could have taken our summer budget of what £1/2m? And recruited 12 new players and take a side border line league 1 and push us to the play offs in 8 months.

Whilst we’re in a bloody good position and we all want us to keep pushing because of the opportunity we’re in,

Let’s also not forgot he’s the man who’s got us there in the first place, And whilst sometimes he gets it wrong, he’ll have my full backing, because he’s doing a bloody terrific job given the circumstances he has to adhere to.

My personal feelings….. we have to play a certain more conserved way because the biggest loss in this team is the goalkeeper! He saved us 15 points already no question and it’s no coincidence we’re losing grip of the play offs without him, even with Dai playing well, we just don’t have the same confidence throughout the team, thus have to be more conservative with the shape of our team.
 
rich4pne said:
Yet last week he received numerous extremely positive comments (including from myself) for a very solid performance. Watfords first goal was Offiah’s error allowing him to cut inside and Gibson certainly wasn't at fault for their 2nd either, but you decide to single him out.
Click to expand...
Please point out where in the post you’ve quoted I blamed Gibson for us conceding?

But if you watch the games, you’d see that since coming back, Gibson has looked very tentative on the ball and not driven us forward to the same extent he was pre-injury
 
Pnebraddy87 said:
Agreed, he'd been pretty poor on his return but thought he'd turned a corner at Ipswich but some real sloppiness in possession yesterday as well.

When he signed I thought he'd be the natural successor to Hughes at LCB but his best performances have probably been at CCB. I think Hughes natural tendencies at LB help him out in that role. Sadly his return coincided with Hughes being out. Tough call but hopefully Hughes will return to LCB now then a decision on Gibson and Storey needed.
Click to expand...
It’s good to know now though to confirm that LCB is the area that needs improving in the summer, and we are well sorted in the middle CCB role with two strong options
 
JB said:
Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion that’s the purpose of a forum, and with no ill meaning I think some fans are over exaggerating our predicament in replacment of hope and feelings.

Hecky is arguably a manager far too good for us. Is he perfect? absolutely not, does he make mistakes? Yes. Does it cost us? sometimes.

But in reality, I cannot of seen another manager who could have taken our summer budget of what £1/2m? And recruited 12 new players and take a side border line league 1 and push us to the play offs in 8 months.

Whilst we’re in a bloody good position and we all want us to keep pushing because of the opportunity we’re in,

Let’s also not forgot he’s the man who’s got us there in the first place, And whilst sometimes he gets it wrong, he’ll have my full backing, because he’s doing a bloody terrific job given the circumstances he has to adhere to.

My personal feelings….. we have to play a certain more conserved way because the biggest loss in this team is the goalkeeper! He saved us 15 points already no question and it’s no coincidence we’re losing grip of the play offs without him, even with Dai playing well, we just don’t have the same confidence throughout the team, thus have to be more conservative with the shape of our team.
Click to expand...
Playing devils advocate I don’t think us being conservative has anything to do with Iverson. We have been quite conservative for most of the season. It’s his style.

But I’m going to say I think people really over rate Hecky. I feel we won’t make the playoffs because his first thought when we are leading is to defend and this will cost us. Do I Expect us to be beating teams 3 or 4 nil? No but going for that second is always beneficial.

Absolutely he has my backing but do I think he is a superb manager like some are suggesting. No only time will tell.
 
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