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Heartless performance

Heartless performance

Dreyfuss said:
In my initial post I did say "after the first 61st" minutes of games. Our record of two goals in that specific period is only matched by Derby. No team has scored less in minutes 61 to 90+.

If you take the second half as a whole we have scored five league goals after 45 mins. Only Derby and Barnsley have scored less.

I reference these stats because I think one big issue with Frankie is his total inability to effect games with substitutes and tactical changes.
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We've scored 6 in the 2nd half. Or are you not counting one that was scored after 45 mins and 23 seconds or something?

We're not scoring enough for sure, and perhaps others are making changes to hold on to leads rather than need a goal.

Sinclair had 2 touches last night in about 12 minutes of play.
Murphy managed none after coming on as sub the other week (think it was vs Derby) in 11 minutes.

That's touches, not shots, touches!
 
Tino said:
We've scored 6 in the 2nd half. Or are you not counting one that was scored after 45 mins and 23 seconds or something?

We're not scoring enough for sure, and perhaps others are making changes to hold on to leads rather than need a goal.

Sinclair had 2 touches last night in about 12 minutes of play.
Murphy managed none after coming on as sub the other week (think it was vs Derby) in 11 minutes.

That's touches, not shots, touches!
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Sorry yeah a mighty 6 goals. Regardless, fact remains only Barnsley and Derby have scored less in the second half of league games.

And in minutes 62 to 90+ no teams have scored less than our glut of two goals. (Only Derby match us with with an equal 2 goals)
 
Tino said:
Not quite...

It's one from minute 75 onwards. 4 goals from minute 60 onwards. We've conceded 6 in that time period.

Actually let's do the full list. Goals in the final 30 minutes.

QPR - 13
Fulham - 11
Coventry - 12
Sheff Utd - 10
Millwall - 9
Luton - 9
Forest - 8
WBA - 8
Swansea - 8
Blackburn - 8
Boro - 8
Huddersfield - 8
Reading - 8
Lashers - 7
Cardiff - 7
Hull - 7
P'boro - 6
Bournemouth - 6
B'ham - 5
Preston - 4
Stoke - 4
Bristol City - 4
Barnsley - 3
Derby - 2

Considering the runaway leaders are only on 6 and near the bottom Sheff Utd are on 10th I'm not sure what he's saying. In comparison Bournemouth have 10 goals in the first 15 minutes of both halves.
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We've scored 14 goals in all. Just under a third of these are scored in the final third of the game. So not a very useful stat as far as we are concerned at the moment.

I think the first problem needs to be scoring a few more goals, we can worry about the specifics another time.
 
simo said:
We've scored 14 goals in all. Just under a third of these are scored in the final third of the game. So not a very useful stat as far as we are concerned at the moment.

I think the first problem needs to be scoring a few more goals, we can worry about the specifics another time.
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Whilst not disagreeing with anything else said this is exactly my point really. Only scoring 6 late on isn't affecting Bournemouth.
 
Suppose I am aged n middle class but I still love my club. At the moment (IMHO) we have no spark and regretfully I cannot see where it will come from in the immediate future. Seeing Tom Clarke back at Deepdale last night made me think a forceful captain might be a step in the right direction.
 
Tino said:
We've scored 6 in the 2nd half. Or are you not counting one that was scored after 45 mins and 23 seconds or something?

We're not scoring enough for sure, and perhaps others are making changes to hold on to leads rather than need a goal.

Sinclair had 2 touches last night in about 12 minutes of play.
Murphy managed none after coming on as sub the other week (think it was vs Derby) in 11 minutes.

That's touches, not shots, touches!
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It’s the lack of invention that’s the problem, we can’t break down a bank of 4 or play through the lines around the penalty box.

Commentator said last night that 40% of our goals have come from set pieces, and we aren’t that good at those. The long throw is ineffective and should be used as a last resort, our corners generally are floated in to the same area every time, we are hesitant to shoot unless in the box.

It’s not even percentage football it’s literally hoping something falls our way.
 
Tino said:
Whilst not disagreeing with anything else said this is exactly my point really. Only scoring 6 late on isn't affecting Bournemouth.
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Bournemouth have scored 13 first half goals and conceded 1 in the first 45 mins of games. They are a different beast to us.

They may only have scored 6 goals in the last 30+ mins of games but by that time they've probably already secured victory. (They've only conceded two in that same period)

I think entering the final third of games we've only been winning on three occasions. (Swansea, Peterborough and QPR)

So in my view to score just two goals in minutes 62 to 90+ is something to be concerned about.
 
United1-4 said:
Suppose I am aged n middle class but I still love my club. At the moment (IMHO) we have no spark and regretfully I cannot see where it will come from in the immediate future. Seeing Tom Clarke back at Deepdale last night made me think a forceful captain might be a step in the right direction.
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A big horrible bas**** like Gregan, Clarke, Moyes is exactly what we need at the moment. Even Garner would be a good captain or leader at present. Contrary to many I think the players are giving their best (or think they are) but I'm sure an inspirational leader would get more out of them. Fairly basic pshychology.
 
Im probably one of the biggest moaners on here but I dont see what was wrong with the game last night? Only saw positives and a gameplan which could have knocked Liverpool out if we had a little more luck. As for their goals, the first looked offside and the 2nd came about because of a poor cross that came back into play off the crossbar and a fortuitous deflection albeit for an excellent finish. They had 2 international cb’s who were given the run around by our movement, its a shame Maguire is perhaps now the worse finisher we’ve got, despite his endeavour and effort he is simply not a goalscorer anymore.
 
MikeConroy'sForehead said:
Have we become a middle class fanbase? That's how it seems to me... As much as I dislike them lot down the road, I don't see our ground bouncing like theirs anytime soon... Frankie has to go surely, but what in earth are they going to say to any new prospective manager? We look stagnant in all aspects of the club...
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Middle class not from my observation of the weathered, poverty stricken and battered faces on the town end
 
Cliff Richard said:
We are what we are. A bunch of ill fitting league one talented but misguided players. That played kids. Forget the name “Liverpool” it was kids. Good kids but kids. Our team from 2001-2004 would have destroyed that opposition . Too soft too backward passing. Boring. That’s the way it is. It will change one way or another and fans will stick with the team. But by equal measure fans can say we want more because what we have now is pretty rubbish
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Origi scored the winning goal in the Champions league!
 
OP must be a blackpool fan or windup

We had a real good go first half, and without a goal to protect second half they were always likely to take lead

If Man Utd can be an absolutely atrocious team with comical displays then so can anyone else, thats football

Some of our fans (and prob most footie fans) have absolutely zero perspective

PNE
 
simo said:
Yes, but under the massive umbrella of only scoring 1 goal a game, full stop.
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In short, Frankie sets us up in a way that ensures we can hardly score a goal, whether it's 0-0 or we're 0-1, 0-2 down.

Whether he's setting up at kick-off in his standard 5-3-2 defensive formation and feeling his way into the game, having apparently done no prep...

Or whether he's "going for it" late on with his adventurous "4-2-4", having deployed all his subs and every piece of tactical know-how at his disposal.

Whatever happens, whatever the scenario, there's no goals coming under Frankie.
 
joycey said:
Don't agree at all. Better finishing in the first half and could have been so different. Why is it we are so quick to have a go .
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100% this. Thought fans were in relatively good voice in the first and also parts of the second. I also thought we played well first half after the first 10 mins, and a better tactician would’ve impacted the game more on 60 mins when it was clear Liverpool had solidified bringing on that unit Phillips at centre half. Frankie’s subs were like for like and we didn’t change shape or approach, which felt a bit ‘Football Manager’ to me.

Seani should’ve scored, but don’t discount the save from their keeper. Potts one on one should’ve done better, but we had the chance.

For my money, McCann man of the match but special mention to SVDB.

Perhaps unpopularly, I say Potts, Lindsay, Cunningham and Rafferty played well too - far better than they have in other games this season.

Game didn’t matter, but the whole time I thought deepdale felt a better, brighter place with bums on seats
 
We require an experienced and very good tactician, motivator who can get the best out of the players and with regard to the fans someone, who like John Beck, coulod bring the passion back and get the fans singing and being loud and proud. Who that would be I don't know.

This thing about lack of atmospher is nothing new and goes a long way back and it was the John Beck era that brought the passion back for the fans. That is one thing that I do thank him for
 
simo said:
Yes, but under the massive umbrella of only scoring 1 goal a game, full stop.
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For sure. I'm just trying to drill down on the stats rather than say "we don't score enough'. I think our end game strategy is poor. And the stats support that theory.

Tino mentions Bournemouth's late game scoring as some form of comparison. But, going into the final third of games Bournemouth have been in a winning position in 10 of 14 league games.

And in 2 of the other 4 games were they weren't winning, they scored goals in the final 30 mins to win both games.

The mindset is different. If they have games sewn up, no need to take risks. If they aren't winning they still have an ability to score late goals. It's why they remain unbeaten.

I guess we can dine out on the 2nd half against Coventry and bury our heads that Frankie knows what to do tactically.

But unless something changes we will be joining Derby and Barnsley (teams who score less than us in 2nd half) in the relegation zone.
 
grarmy said:
Origi scored the winning goal in the Champions league!
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Plus they had England international, Oxlade-Chamberlain, and Brazil's goalie, Adrian, plus others that would get into most lower Prem teams each week. So how they can just be termed 'kids' I don't know.
 
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