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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Hecky's comments.

His job is to instill belief. He's doing a particularly bad job. But telling them how consistently shit they are makes his job even harder.

So Hecky's comments about seeing things he enjoyed are not for us. They're for the players.

He's getting a lot wrong at the moment. Resisting the temptation to get on the "we are shit and tedious" train is not one of them.

Moysie would always praise players when they were bad, and say he wanted more from them when they were good.

Kept them grounded.

Smart man Moysie.

For clarity, we are shit and tedious.
 
A big concern is this notion that this is a blip or a bad spell.

Regardless of how we started the season, since the turn of the year its been relegation form and no matter how much talk of "fine margines or KMI's" the performances have been awful.

Lets be clear, the ownership take thevast majority of the blame alongside Ridsdale but the manager is stuck in a rut and I don't think he has the nouse or fight to turn it around.
 
JK said:
A big concern is this notion that this is a blip or a bad spell.

Regardless of how we started the season, since the turn of the year its been relegation form and no matter how much talk of "fine margines or KMI's" the performances have been awful.

Lets be clear, the ownership take thevast majority of the blame alongside Ridsdale but the manager is stuck in a rut and I don't think he has the nouse or fight to turn it around.
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Which hamster should we replace the current hamster with on the hamster wheel to get us moving forward?
 
JK said:
A big concern is this notion that this is a blip or a bad spell.

Regardless of how we started the season, since the turn of the year its been relegation form and no matter how much talk of "fine margines or KMI's" the performances have been awful.

Lets be clear, the ownership take thevast majority of the blame alongside Ridsdale but the manager is stuck in a rut and I don't think he has the nouse or fight to turn it around.
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Yeah agreed. Just putting everything on the owners and Ridsdale leaves Heckingbottom pretty blameless. They can all have portions of the blame for what relates to their jobs.

At the end of the day, even after losing Armstrong, the squad is definitely not bottom three material. But that's the form of where they are, and it's a big chunk too.

Despite the squad being underfunded for years, we've got in my opinion, at least a mid table squad this season. And he's struggling to find a way to bring them out of this rut after the good first half of the season he had. So it is on him to change that. As this is nothing to do with the underfunding.
 
monky1234 said:
That promotion has nothing to do with Wilder. He left in 2021 in the Premier League with them bottom of the league. Then Jokanovic got the job for the Championship season and they were still doing badly.

He can be given his flowers for turning that around and getting them up to 5th that season after taking over in November from around 17th, which does help by having good players for the league. But that doesn't make it a Chris Wilder achievement. Who's currently on the same points as us with a much better team.

But you can do that whilst also thinking he's not doing good enough for us right now. And can also say he did do well for us, as being where we was half way through the season, was higher than anyone expected. And the team was brimming with confidence and despite not blowing teams away, was able to be in the game with every team.

You was calling them your favourite manager duo in December. He's not all of a sudden become a shit manager since then. But it does seem he's unable to get the players out of this rut. Which it is on him to try and do that as it's his job to pull them out of it and get things going again. But is failing at.
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And in December was he playing Smith ahead of Osmajic? His performance has been the same since then? His tactical selections? His decisions in the transfer market spunking everything on Lang? Him seemingly pissing off every player?

I'd disagree that he hasn't become a shit manager overnight. The idea the nose dive isn't in the main down to him is laughable. So yeah, there's been some amazing moments with Heckingbottom but the season isn't 20 games long. He's been fucking appalling since the turn of the year, that's a fact.

This run is surely sackable? I personally don't think he will be though. It will be a weird experiment in how low we go and poor performance records stretching back decades will be broken.
 
monky1234 said:
Yeah agreed. Just putting everything on the owners and Ridsdale leaves Heckingbottom pretty blameless. They can all have portions of the blame for what relates to their jobs.

At the end of the day, even after losing Armstrong, the squad is definitely not bottom three material. But that's the form of where they are, and it's a big chunk too.

Despite the squad being underfunded for years, we've got in my opinion, at least a mid table squad this season. And he's struggling to find a way to bring them out of this rut after the good first half of the season he had. So it is on him to change that. As this is nothing to do with the underfunding.
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I don't disagree with much of what you say.

As I said to @Doyler last night, I can not defend a manager with a win record of 25% combined with the total collapse since Janauary (again) and he probably has to go.

However the endless cycle will continue until we get new owners and the CEO has left.
 
Heck Tuah said:
No, not very well 😂

In short, it entirely depends on too many factors to really know. But yes, obviously I do now feel more will need to be done than I did when we were in the play offs all season long.

Out of contract - Cornell, Brady, Potts (?), Hughes, Lewis, Keane, Mawene, Pradic.

I feel like there's an obvious one in missing. Let me know if I've missed anybody, but they can all go. Wouldn't be surprised or upset to see Hughes stay, but would stink of that 1 season too many which we love to commit to.

Not long ago I would have kept Potts too as a squad/utility player. He can go - no longer up to the standard required.

Loan players will almost certainly all leave and not return - Devine, Dobbin, Jebbison, Lukovic.

Contracted players we should and could realistically allow to move on - Smith, Lindsay, Osmajic if he's not getting a renewal (probably will).

It's my view that we've got a bloated squad right now. I think it's a good thing to have 2 or 3 senior players not making the squad but the quality of said players is not good enough. Too many are well passed their best (Potts, Brady) or just not good enough (Lukovic, Lewis).

3 loanees need replacing. Potts and Brady can probably be replaced by a single player (Kitt Nelson?). Hughes needs replacing if he goes.

The rest...they offer so little that I'm not sure they need directly replacing. This is where a proper academy or something resembling forward planning would come in handy so we could flesh out the squad with young players instead of journeymen.

Any contracted regulars who leave would need replacing but that depends on what we decide to do with them.

I expect somewhere between 6-10 (wide range I know) but so much depends on what decisions are made. No doubt we'll end up stuck with a few of the ones that need to go (Potts, Lindsay, Smith).

Bit of a ramble - not sure if it makes much sense. But there we are.
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I genuinely don't see how anyone comes in for Smith on a free. He will stay here for a year regardless of the contract. He's 35 now isn't he?

I've been massively disappointed with him. Seemed a bit of a monster at Sheffield Wednesday and what 8 goals last season?
 
Durutti said:
And in December was he playing Smith ahead of Osmajic? His performance has been the same since then? His tactical selections? His decisions in the transfer market spunking everything on Lang? Him seemingly pissing off every player?

I'd disagree that he hasn't become a shit manager overnight. The idea the nose dive isn't in the main down to him is laughable. So yeah, there's been some amazing moments with Heckingbottom but the season isn't 20 games long. He's been fucking appalling since the turn of the year, that's a fact.

This run is surely sackable? I personally don't think he will be though. It will be a weird experiment in how low we go and poor performance records stretching back decades will be broken.
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Osmajic had a niggle which is why he didn't come on. I'm not saying that performances have been the same, I'm just arguing he doesn't become shit overnight. He's the same manager that he was.

It would've been difficult to carry on as well as we were doing, as we were top four with a mid table side, but now he's managing a team that's on a terrible run, which of course he has some responsibility for as it is bad. There's been some really bad results and performances, when previously we weren't having any really bad results, and just the odd really bad performance, and seemingly he doesn't have the ability to get them out of it.
 
monky1234 said:
Osmajic had a niggle which is why he didn't come on. I'm not saying that performances have been the same, I'm just arguing he doesn't become shit overnight. He's the same manager that he was.
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I really disagree with this, as a manager, you're only as good as your current decisions in any world of work. However he has dealt with the players, however he's trained them, all his decisions are adding up to be being shit. It doesn't matter what happened first half.

One thing I think I'm seeing is an overloading problem. It would explain the high number of injuries, it would explain the drop off two seasons in a row, perhaps the attitude of players towards him too. After the Rovers defeat the 'they're in tomorrow' was something many fans will have cheered but I whinced at it a bit. I think they looked in that game like it was the last thing they needed.

Taking the season as 40 plus games, he's good for the first 20 of that but what's to say he's not a shit manager the second half of it? The data would really suggest that he is so far.
 
Durutti said:
I really disagree with this, as a manager, you're only as good as your current decisions in any world of work. However he has dealt with the players, however he's trained them, all his decisions are adding up to be being shit. It doesn't matter what happened first half.

One thing I think I'm seeing is an overloading problem. It would explain the high number of injuries, it would explain the drop off two seasons in a row, perhaps the attitude of players towards him too. After the Rovers defeat the 'they're in tomorrow' was something many fans will have cheered but I whinced at it a bit. I think they looked in that game like it was the last thing they needed.

Taking the season as 40 plus games, he's good for the first 20 of that but what's to say he's not a shit manager the second half of it? The data would really suggest that so far.
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Surely that’s also not helped by our appalling squad depth, which to be fair to him isn’t his fault.
 
Durutti said:
I genuinely don't see how anyone comes in for Smith on a free. He will stay here for a year regardless of the contract. He's 35 now isn't he?

I've been massively disappointed with him. Seemed a bit of a monster at Sheffield Wednesday and what 8 goals last season?
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They probably won't, but we have been better at shipping players out in the last 12 months. Perhaps one of the better backed league 1/league 2 teams could take him. Maybe even on loan. He won't be one of our higher earners. Lindsay on the other hand, is more difficult. Bauer 2.0.

I've defended Smith and I still take issue with people booing him on to the pitch/sarcastic jeers etc. Can't stand that shit.

Tbh he started the season fine, but he's been well below the required standard overall. At least now he's actually playing the role/minutes he should have always been getting. Just a different option off the bench when needed.

I don't like to talk about it much, because I'm still haunted by the ghost of Oli McBurnie.
 
Durutti said:
I really disagree with this, as a manager, you're only as good as your current decisions in any world of work. However he has dealt with the players, however he's trained them, all his decisions are adding up to be being shit. It doesn't matter what happened first half.

One thing I think I'm seeing is an overloading problem. It would explain the high number of injuries, it would explain the drop off two seasons in a row, perhaps the attitude of players towards him too. After the Rovers defeat the 'they're in tomorrow' was something many fans will have cheered but I whinced at it a bit. I think they looked in that game like it was the last thing they needed.

Taking the season as 40 plus games, he's good for the first 20 of that but what's to say he's not a shit manager the second half of it? The data would really suggest that he is so far.
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I don't think football is the same as any world of work when it comes to this though, as that could then be said about probably every single football manager. At least the vast majority. As some good managers go on really bad runs. So I would disagree. But I understand your point.

Most clubs have that issue with injuries nowadays as a lot is asked of footballers now. Especially in certain leagues where the intensity is high.

But I do think he does seem to struggle getting teams out of ruts. I don't think he's a shit manager because of that, as it's not easy to do when things are this bad, but it is a negative thing to have. Maybe that's why he loves draws so much 😂
 
Heck Tuah said:
They probably won't, but we have been better at shipping players out in the last 12 months. Perhaps one of the better backed league 1/league 2 teams could take him. Maybe even on loan. He won't be one of our higher earners. Lindsay on the other hand, is more difficult. Bauer 2.0.

I've defended Smith and I still take issue with people booing him on to the pitch/sarcastic jeers etc. Can't stand that shit.

Tbh he started the season fine, but he's been well below the required standard overall. At least now he's actually playing the role/minutes he should have always been getting. Just a different option off the bench when needed.

I don't like to talk about it much, because I'm still haunted by the ghost of Oli McBurnie.
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In a team with wingers I can see Smith being decent. He's just too slow and lumbering in this weird 'make 20 yards now' system we employ
 
Durutti said:
I really disagree with this, as a manager, you're only as good as your current decisions in any world of work. However he has dealt with the players, however he's trained them, all his decisions are adding up to be being shit. It doesn't matter what happened first half.

One thing I think I'm seeing is an overloading problem. It would explain the high number of injuries, it would explain the drop off two seasons in a row, perhaps the attitude of players towards him too. After the Rovers defeat the 'they're in tomorrow' was something many fans will have cheered but I whinced at it a bit. I think they looked in that game like it was the last thing they needed.

Taking the season as 40 plus games, he's good for the first 20 of that but what's to say he's not a shit manager the second half of it? The data would really suggest that he is so far.
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Interesting you mention the Rovers game.
Isn't that the same game where he refused to go into the dressing room afterwards?
I don't mind the "getting them in tomorrow" approach infact he could've gone for that with nearly every performance since the Wigan defeat!
What i have got a problem with is not going into the dressing room.
That attitude is a big no no for me.
 
I wonder if we need to go back to the John Mcgrath school of player signings- get them in on free transfers.

It means you can spend more of what pot you have on wages without having to pay another cub for them.

-Also, if the players have been staring redundancy in the face, it might make them more motivated to play, as no-one likes the concept of having to get a proper job!

Having said that, Lewis hasn't exactly set the pitch alight has he?

thoughts?
 
Durutti said:
In a team with wingers I can see Smith being decent. He's just too slow and lumbering in this weird 'make 20 yards now' system we employ
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It's frustrating that we only ever seem to have him and our best crosser of the ball, Vukcevic, on the pitch for 5 mins at any one time. Even when Smith was getting more meaningful minutes.
 
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