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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

HunterLionheart said:
Yeah precisely. You can only compare the level of the squad to those he has to compete against.

He's by no means perfect, wasn't my choice, and I won't be sad when he goes.

But the idea he is massively underperforming is a blinkered delusion harboured by people with no perspective on the rest of the league.
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The idea the league has transformed so drastically in three years is, in opinion, complete bullshit, backed up by the fact that a lot of the players collectively playing in it then are still now. Riis was a good striker three years ago and still is for Bristol.

The idea the division has moved on so much since Lowe's era to the point where a better playing squad at Heck's disposal should be performing worse is complete bollocks in my opinion.
 
Thought I'd have a look to see which managers are available if we were to get rid of Heckingbottom.

Ignoring the unrealistic options (although with a bit of wiggle room for the new ownership in terms of what is achievable as an appointment), this is the list of managers without a club currently:
  • Will Still
  • Tony Mowbray
  • Ryan Mason
  • Steve McClaren
  • Ömer Riza
  • Mick Beale
  • Steven Gerrard
  • Wayne Rooney
  • Nigel Pearson
  • Lee Bowyer
  • Marti Cifuentes
  • Gerhard Struber
  • Alan Sheehan
  • Eric Ramsay
  • Javi Gracia
  • Valerien Ismael
  • Aaron Ramsay
  • Mick McCarthy
From the managers currently in work, realistically I don't think we could poach someone from another Championship team unless we were seeing a drastic change to our budget to make us one of the biggest spending clubs in the division. I think it would still be the usual situation of looking at League One managers but perhaps with foreign managers also being looked at (whoever they would be). With the League One lot, I'd guess it would primarily be the ones currently in and around the playoffs.

There's also the chance a random coach/assistant manager applies but we can't really predict who that would be.
 
Our mentality has been all over the place this season (and last). We've shown quality in fits and starts but repeatedly shoot ourselves in the foot.

After last year's disasterpiece, it looked like we'd found a new resolve at the start of the season with a fresh squad and could control games more effectively, play high and wide with less fear and be generally more decisive in key moments.

The fact that we have nosedived on two occasions (or just flat out failed last season), with a lot of concentration/focus issues thrown in to our defending and risk aversion in our attacking game suggests to me that, regardless of playing squad or tactics, we have a mentality or confidence issue that is going unresolved.

I don't know the causes, none of us do for sure, but we can say with confidence that the manager is in the best place to deal with that and instill the right mentality in his players. He has to shoulder some at least part of the blame if he hasn't been able to do that (twice).
 
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cragtek said:
Our mentality has been all over the place this season (and last). We've shown quality in fits and starts.

After last year's disasterpiece, it looked like we'd found a new resolve at the start of the season with a fresh squad and could control games more effectively, play high and wide with less fear and be generally more decisive in key moments.

The fact that we have nosedived on two occasions, with a lot of concentration/focus issues thrown in to our defending, suggests to me that regardless of playing squad or tactics, we have a mentality or confidence issue.

I don't know the causes, none of us do for sure, but we can say with confidence that the manager is in the best place to deal with that and instill the right mentality in his players. He has to shoulder some at least part of the blame.
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Could be lots of things though. I think the nose dives most obviously suggest to me that he can't manage training loads for the players. He can't adapt to new systems and formations. He and Murphy can't coach set pieces either. The idea this is as good as this squad gets is laughable in my opinion. In a division where everyone beats everyone quite regularly we're winning three in 19 is it? It just isn't good enough.

Psychologically, this may be me looking at it from a fan's perspective over analysing interviews...but he never seemed to recover from that Blackburn interview when he distanced himself from the players. Mental that. On a Lowe scale that was a 10 for stupidity.

If we have respected posters suggesting the improvement in the division means the improvement in the squad is justifiably now a negative in real terms then we really are clutching at the final straw to find a defence for him.
 
Durutti said:
Could be lots of things though. I think the nose dives most obviously suggest to me that he can't manage training loads for the players. He can't adapt to new systems and formations. He and Murphy can't coach set pieces either. The idea this is as good as this squad gets is laughable in my opinion. In a division where everyone beats everyone quite regularly we're winning three in 19 is it? It just isn't good enough.

Psychologically, this may be me looking at it from a fan's perspective over analysing interviews...but he never seemed to recover from that Blackburn interview when he distanced himself from the players. Mental that. On a Lowe scale that was a 10 for stupidity.

If we have respected posters suggesting the improvement in the division means the improvement in the squad is justifiably now a negative in real terms then we really are clutching at the final straw to find a defence for him.
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Agree, whatever it is - man management, training loads, etc - he doesn't seem to have it in him to get consistent results or even consistent levels of effort from players.

It's always a massive warning sign to me when we play terribly for 20 minutes and then suddenly kick into gear. Our focus drifts, waxes and wanes. It's just not something you see in talented teams, or even "poor" teams that overachieve. They all work hard for the 90. Sure there are ups and downs or phases of play, but concentration and effort stays high even if you're chasing the game. I don't see that with us sometimes.

And I use "team" as a separate term to "squad" here because I also don't buy that our squad has suddenly become much weaker or the division has become much tougher. I think regardless of any of that, mentality is the biggest multiplier for team performance and we can observe that it's inconsistent.

Focusing just on what we are doing and nothing else, we're not good enough.
 
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Yep ... concentration levels seem to fluctuate wildly, in both halves, at the start of them, at the end of them, injury time, after "drink breaks" times, etc etc. Poor.

I wonder where Hecky's role ends and McColl's begins ?
At how many Clubs/how long -;have they been a 'partnership' ?
Have they always been this 'team' ?
Have all the Clubs that Hecky has managed been obligated to take him on too ?
 
Bodney Rewes said:
Thought I'd have a look to see which managers are available if we were to get rid of Heckingbottom.

Ignoring the unrealistic options (although with a bit of wiggle room for the new ownership in terms of what is achievable as an appointment), this is the list of managers without a club currently:
  • Will Still
  • Tony Mowbray
  • Ryan Mason
  • Steve McClaren
  • Ömer Riza
  • Mick Beale
  • Steven Gerrard
  • Wayne Rooney
  • Nigel Pearson
  • Lee Bowyer
  • Marti Cifuentes
  • Gerhard Struber
  • Alan Sheehan
  • Eric Ramsay
  • Javi Gracia
  • Valerien Ismael
  • Aaron Ramsay
  • Mick McCarthy
From the managers currently in work, realistically I don't think we could poach someone from another Championship team unless we were seeing a drastic change to our budget to make us one of the biggest spending clubs in the division. I think it would still be the usual situation of looking at League One managers but perhaps with foreign managers also being looked at (whoever they would be). With the League One lot, I'd guess it would primarily be the ones currently in and around the playoffs.

There's also the chance a random coach/assistant manager applies but we can't really predict who that would be.
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Out of this list I would take Gerrard, but my personal preference would be Robbie Keane, before anyone rolls their eyes, he has good statistics albeit in foreign leagues.
 
Durutti said:
The idea the league has transformed so drastically in three years is, in opinion, complete bullshit, backed up by the fact that a lot of the players collectively playing in it then are still now. Riis was a good striker three years ago and still is for Bristol.

The idea the division has moved on so much since Lowe's era to the point where a better playing squad at Heck's disposal should be performing worse is complete bollocks in my opinion.
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Table wise we slightly over performed under Lowe. Looking at stats and our actual performances we were largely dogshit. And it was all much of a muchness, it led us the exact same place.

Nowhere near the playoffs. Not in a relegation fight.

The only time the club will see a manager as performing below par, is if they have us in a relegation fight.
 
Bodney Rewes said:
Thought I'd have a look to see which managers are available if we were to get rid of Heckingbottom.

Ignoring the unrealistic options (although with a bit of wiggle room for the new ownership in terms of what is achievable as an appointment), this is the list of managers without a club currently:
  • Will Still
  • Tony Mowbray
  • Ryan Mason
  • Steve McClaren
  • Ömer Riza
  • Mick Beale
  • Steven Gerrard
  • Wayne Rooney
  • Nigel Pearson
  • Lee Bowyer
  • Marti Cifuentes
  • Gerhard Struber
  • Alan Sheehan
  • Eric Ramsay
  • Javi Gracia
  • Valerien Ismael
  • Aaron Ramsay
  • Mick McCarthy
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That list really does make grim reading.

Of that motley crew I think our best bet probably would be Gerrard. Though I’d be far, far from convinced. I think his work at Rangers goes very underrated tbf to him though.

All completely premature and pointless speculation though as Hecky isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I pray this takeover does happen and in the form we’re all hoping for.

Personally I think there’s a hell of a lot of work that needs doing off the pitch to upgrade the club to Championship standard before we can start fantasising about hiring a some maverick coach. I hope Zedan has very deep pockets.

That is, if he does actually buy the club at all.
 
Durutti said:
The idea the league has transformed so drastically in three years is, in opinion, complete bullshit, backed up by the fact that a lot of the players collectively playing in it then are still now. Riis was a good striker three years ago and still is for Bristol.

The idea the division has moved on so much since Lowe's era to the point where a better playing squad at Heck's disposal should be performing worse is complete bollocks in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Probably get hate for this but is it possible that one of the reasons why people think the squad is so much better is because Hecky has got the best out of them?

We had 4 free transfers in our starting 11,
4 players who were playing under Lowe and with the exception of Osmajic should have moved on by now,
Offiah who was in league 1 last season and finally Dobbin and Devine. Both top class players but before playing for Hecky had hardly done anything of note. 5 goals in league 1 for Dobbin before joining us even Ryan Ledson has managed more than that
 
SF89 said:
Probably get hate for this but is it possible that one of the reasons why people think the squad is so much better is because Hecky has got the best out of them?

We had 4 free transfers in our starting 11,
4 players who were playing under Lowe and with the exception of Osmajic should have moved on by now,
Offiah who was in league 1 last season and finally Dobbin and Devine. Both top class players but before playing for Hecky had hardly done anything of note. 5 goals in league 1 for Dobbin before joining us even Ryan Ledson has managed more than that
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You do make a fair point.

I just can’t see past the complete capitulation in the second half of the season. There are so many games where opportunities have been missed. Yes, I know hindsight is a wonderful thing. Football management isn’t my field but I would have made different choices at times.
 
Bodney Rewes said:
Thought I'd have a look to see which managers are available if we were to get rid of Heckingbottom.

Ignoring the unrealistic options (although with a bit of wiggle room for the new ownership in terms of what is achievable as an appointment), this is the list of managers without a club currently:
  • Will Still
  • Tony Mowbray
  • Ryan Mason
  • Steve McClaren
  • Ömer Riza
  • Mick Beale
  • Steven Gerrard
  • Wayne Rooney
  • Nigel Pearson
  • Lee Bowyer
  • Marti Cifuentes
  • Gerhard Struber
  • Alan Sheehan
  • Eric Ramsay
  • Javi Gracia
  • Valerien Ismael
  • Aaron Ramsay
  • Mick McCarthy
From the managers currently in work, realistically I don't think we could poach someone from another Championship team unless we were seeing a drastic change to our budget to make us one of the biggest spending clubs in the division. I think it would still be the usual situation of looking at League One managers but perhaps with foreign managers also being looked at (whoever they would be). With the League One lot, I'd guess it would primarily be the ones currently in and around the playoffs.

There's also the chance a random coach/assistant manager applies but we can't really predict who that would be.
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Sam Allardyce?
 
SF89 said:
Probably get hate for this but is it possible that one of the reasons why people think the squad is so much better is because Hecky has got the best out of them?

We had 4 free transfers in our starting 11,
4 players who were playing under Lowe and with the exception of Osmajic should have moved on by now,
Offiah who was in league 1 last season and finally Dobbin and Devine. Both top class players but before playing for Hecky had hardly done anything of note. 5 goals in league 1 for Dobbin before joining us even Ryan Ledson has managed more than that
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Football is a funny old game of politics ! so I urge you to refrain from judging players on the political externals of where they were playing last and instead judge their levels on the evidence in front of your eyes👀.In so doing it’s clear that Risdale has used his contacts to present Hecky with a promising pool of undiscovered talented players and Hecky’s hoof ball tactics has enabled your summary of excuses .Jamie Vardy was released into non league and I bet non of the players who remained in Leicester’s academy after his release were ever heard of thoughtless of going on to have a stellar career like him .Suffice to say Hecky is a poor coach/manager 💯
 
Bodney Rewes said:
Thought I'd have a look to see which managers are available if we were to get rid of Heckingbottom.

Ignoring the unrealistic options (although with a bit of wiggle room for the new ownership in terms of what is achievable as an appointment), this is the list of managers without a club currently:
  • Will Still
  • Tony Mowbray
  • Ryan Mason
  • Steve McClaren
  • Ömer Riza
  • Mick Beale
  • Steven Gerrard
  • Wayne Rooney
  • Nigel Pearson
  • Lee Bowyer
  • Marti Cifuentes
  • Gerhard Struber
  • Alan Sheehan
  • Eric Ramsay
  • Javi Gracia
  • Valerien Ismael
  • Aaron Ramsay
  • Mick McCarthy
From the managers currently in work, realistically I don't think we could poach someone from another Championship team unless we were seeing a drastic change to our budget to make us one of the biggest spending clubs in the division. I think it would still be the usual situation of looking at League One managers but perhaps with foreign managers also being looked at (whoever they would be). With the League One lot, I'd guess it would primarily be the ones currently in and around the playoffs.

There's also the chance a random coach/assistant manager applies but we can't really predict who that would be.
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Mowbray
Cifuentes
Struber

I’d have either of them three.

Mowbray did a great job at Rovers with entertaining , attractive football. I’m not convinced Cifuentes has sudently become a bad manager, Leicester looked doomed regardless. And Struber was mightily unlucky to get the pot, good manager who plays some decent football.
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
Mowbray
Cifuentes
Struber

I’d have either of them three.

Mowbray did a great job at Rovers with entertaining , attractive football. I’m not convinced Cifuentes has sudently become a bad manager, Leicester looked doomed regardless. And Struber was mightily unlucky to get the pot, good manager who plays some decent football.
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The Rovers fans I know would strongly disagree with that.
 
pne1881 said:
The Rovers fans I know would strongly disagree with that.
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They might do, same way some folk here only remember end times Alex Neil.

Three or four years on the bounce they had a striker in and around the top goalscorer conversation with Armstrong and Brereton-Diaz.

As much as that hinged on those two converting, it very much relies on the service too. They very positive under Mowbray and often scored plenty of goals.

I’m not saying we should make him our absolute first target but I’m confident if he was here instead of Heckingbottom, we’d be playing much more attacking football and it wouldn’t be hard to improve on being nearly relegated and lower midtable.
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
They might do, same way some folk here only remember end times Alex Neil.

Three or four years on the bounce they had a striker in and around the top goalscorer conversation with Armstrong and Brereton-Diaz.

As much as that hinged on those two converting, it very much relies on the service too. They very positive under Mowbray and often scored plenty of goals.

I’m not saying we should make him our absolute first target but I’m confident if he was here instead of Heckingbottom, we’d be playing much more attacking football and it wouldn’t be hard to improve on being nearly relegated and lower midtable.
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Entertainment wise it's a pretty low bar to exceed.
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
Mowbray
Cifuentes
Struber

I’d have either of them three.

Mowbray did a great job at Rovers with entertaining , attractive football. I’m not convinced Cifuentes has sudently become a bad manager, Leicester looked doomed regardless. And Struber was mightily unlucky to get the pot, good manager who plays some decent football.
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Glad you're not selecting the new manager if / when it happens!
 
Jack Daniels said:
Glad you're not selecting the new manager if / when it happens!
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I don't think it's too bad.

Remember a couple of us were in the vast minority wanting Neil back after a pretty appalling time at Stoke. Most of the fans were much happier with Heck. We can't attract managers who are on the up.

The lesson is finding talent that's at the 'bottom of the sine wave' in terms of career. The only buggers coming here need to have come off the back of an unfair dismissal from a messy club and I'd argue cifuentes and struber actually have. Could do worse.

Not sure about Mowbray. His giving youth a massive chance would be a huge tick for me.
 
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