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Is Lowe evolving?

Is Lowe evolving?

york white said:
But Lowe and Marsh are doing a good job and don’t deserve the constant shit they get which is mainly on this forum and not replicated across the wider fan base (apologies, I know that won’t sit well but is the common view of fans I speak to who don’t bother with being on here).
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If you think the wider fan base reckon Lowe is 'doing a good job', what are you basing this on?

Sure, outsiders might look at our league position and say he's doing well. But the people who sit through his games? Those of us looking for signs of progress? Foundations being put in place? A long-term project taking shape? 🤔

Occasionally, there'll be a flash of what-could-be (4-0 v Boro, Rovers away, Stoke away, second half vs Saints,) but it's rarely more than an odd blip before he reverts to 'Ledo' type.

People might not want him sacked (just yet) but nearly two years into his tenure, with only glimpses of anything other than turgid, slow, negative football, I'm not sure many would say he's doing a good job.

I'm all for giving managers time, but there has to be something to base it on - hence why Frankie got fired so fast.

By the end of this season, we'll have had two and half seasons of Loweball, Slowball, The Brand, whatever you want to call it.

Have you really seen anything solid to suggest he's got more to give than what we've seen so far?

Because, sadly, I haven't. 🙁
 
york white said:
But Lowe and Marsh are doing a good job and don’t deserve the constant shit they get which is mainly on this forum and not replicated across the wider fan base (apologies, I know that won’t sit well but is the common view of fans I speak to who don’t bother with being on here).
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Well you have a small sample size to base that on.

I know plenty who don't post on here who are sick to death of his shit, negative football.
 
Rodney Bewes said:
Aye I've not seen a suggestion yet other than Rowett who looks like they could achieve more than Lowe has with our budget and our players. And folks won't like Rowett because of the football he plays.

I'm not the biggest fan of Lowe's but I think folks are viewing him as more inept than he is. I don't think we'll get relegated under him. We'll probably finish midtable again. If people want a better manager than him, they need to find someone who can offer better than that. And as you say, we've only got so big a budget so it isn't likely to be an in-prime promotion-winning manager. We're just in a position where we're only likely to get flawed managers.

For us to get promoted, we need a really shrewd manager and I don't honestly believe there are that many about. Also they'd need to be someone that our board is willing to back. Either that or we get lucky and everyone else is crapper than us one year
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Rowett's a steady manager at this level, no more no less.

Millwall should've comfortably made the play offs last season, look at some of their results in the last 8 games, they completely bottled that and it was a squad he'd been managing for four years.

QPR should be in for him as he'll keep them up and then get them comfortable mid table. I don't really see what he'd offer that Alex Neil could at the time.

Lee Carsley is someone I'd like to be considered when the time comes. Was in the Man. City coaching set up then went to Brentford and managed them for a game or two and now doing great work with England Under 21s. He has a Steve Cooper/McKenna feel about him so interested where he ends up eventually but you'd think any ambitious championship club would be in for him when he becomes available.

If people are desperate to sack Lowe yet don't think someone like Carsley is realistic then it sums up the state of the club.
 
Staffordwhite said:
If you think the wider fan base reckon Lowe is 'doing a good job', what are you basing this on?

Sure, outsiders might look at our league position and say he's doing well. But the people who sit through his games? Those of us looking for signs of progress? Foundations being put in place? A long-term project taking shape? 🤔

Occasionally, there'll be a flash of what-could-be (4-0 v Boro, Rovers away, Stoke away, second half vs Saints,) but it's rarely more than an odd blip before he reverts to 'Ledo' type.

People might not want him sacked (just yet) but nearly two years into his tenure, with only glimpses of anything other than turgid, slow, negative football, I'm not sure many would say he's doing a good job.

I'm all for giving managers time, but there has to be something to base it on - hence why Frankie got fired so fast.

By the end of this season, we'll have had two and half seasons of Loweball, Slowball, The Brand, whatever you want to call it.

Have you really seen anything solid to suggest he's got more to give than what we've seen so far?

Because, sadly, I haven't. 🙁
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I would start by nailing my colours to the mast...I was pleased at Lowe's appointment . It only took a few weeks for me to start to dislike him, as arrogant and lacking empathy, especially with the fans. However, I'm fine with disliking my manager and tge team doing well. I felt fairly proud of the effort at Leicester (a fortunate rebound put them in for the first -I felt fairly comfortable watching). Either side of half time last Wednesday...but then did we sit back and invite Southampton on? When Potts scored, they were rocking. I turn 70 before the end of the year and what gets me in the car is(after the Moorbrook to be fair) excitement, watching my side 'have a go'. I missed more matches than I went to last season, despite having a season ticket. I'm not bothered about watching my side fight to defend a lead (OK that contradicts what I said about Leicester). Against Coventry on Saturday, we need to show intent...
 
Kendale said:
I would start by nailing my colours to the mast...I was pleased at Lowe's appointment . It only took a few weeks for me to start to dislike him, as arrogant and lacking empathy, especially with the fans. However, I'm fine with disliking my manager and tge team doing well. I felt fairly proud of the effort at Leicester (a fortunate rebound put them in for the first -I felt fairly comfortable watching). Either side of half time last Wednesday...but then did we sit back and invite Southampton on? When Potts scored, they were rocking. I turn 70 before the end of the year and what gets me in the car is(after the Moorbrook to be fair) excitement, watching my side 'have a go'. I missed more matches than I went to last season, despite having a season ticket. I'm not bothered about watching my side fight to defend a lead (OK that contradicts what I said about Leicester). Against Coventry on Saturday, we need to show intent...
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I agree that we need a more positive outlook in games especially at home. Performances at Deepdale have for a large part been dull for quite sometime. The decline set in during the last 12 months of Neil’s tenure.
Without the season ticket special offer sales would have reduced significantly.
The game against Southampton was one of a small number I’ve enjoyed in that period.
Don’t know whether we sat back in that game or got pushed back by a Southampton team who are good in possession and have some quality players. I was enthused by that performance and disappointed that the momentum was not carried into Saturday.'
 
Wonder what metrics have been put in place by Hemmings Jr and Riddler this season? Just like any other employee Lowe will have realistic targets to attempt to hit.

If it's just finish 12th-14th then he's doing "a good job."

If it's to show more ambition from the start of games then not really but he's had this style for nearly two years and bar perhaps losing the Wigan home game has never felt on the brink being in charge.
 
If you break it down to its simplest form, this was before RL came to some extent, but has become patently obvious during RLs tenure, with the odd (very rare) exception:

We get comfortably beaten by top 6 teams
We narrowly lose or draw to upper mid-table teams
We narrowly beat or draw with lower mid-table teams
We comfortably beat bottom 6 teams

That is the epitome of a mid-table team and thats exactly what we are and have been for a number of years

What will change this ?
Will RL be able to 'evolve' and learn to change this ?
If YES how long do we give him ?
Would a new manager be able to change this ?
Could a new manager take us further away from this if the wrong guy is chosen ?
Would further investment change this ?
Is this sustainable ?
Do we want to change this ?

Like I say I've over simplified a bit but when you look into it its surprising how often the above does happen
 
Staffordwhite said:
If you think the wider fan base reckon Lowe is 'doing a good job', what are you basing this on?

Sure, outsiders might look at our league position and say he's doing well. But the people who sit through his games? Those of us looking for signs of progress? Foundations being put in place? A long-term project taking shape? 🤔

Occasionally, there'll be a flash of what-could-be (4-0 v Boro, Rovers away, Stoke away, second half vs Saints,) but it's rarely more than an odd blip before he reverts to 'Ledo' type.

People might not want him sacked (just yet) but nearly two years into his tenure, with only glimpses of anything other than turgid, slow, negative football, I'm not sure many would say he's doing a good job.

I'm all for giving managers time, but there has to be something to base it on - hence why Frankie got fired so fast.

By the end of this season, we'll have had two and half seasons of Loweball, Slowball, The Brand, whatever you want to call it.

Have you really seen anything solid to suggest he's got more to give than what we've seen so far?

Because, sadly, I haven't. 🙁
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Very good points but just to play devils advocate when you talk about outsiders, have we sat through their games and seen quality, flowing attacking football?

Is the turgidness we describe in some cases just Championship football?

Saying that I look at some of the goals that are regularly scored around the league, passing, movement, flair etc and see we rarely do that.

Look at the Plymouth goal, Cardiff goal and Hull goal from this weekend for examples, how many times do we see that happen? In some cases it's hard to muster goals like that when our attempt to play football is the channel ball, ball up in the air or long hoof out from the back.

We actually put a cracking flowing move together on Saturday from the back which resulted in a chance for Osmijic, why do we only see that once a game?

I think our defensive recruitment is really coming back to haunt us.
 
RedScarBelgrade said:
If you break it down to its simplest form, this was before RL came to some extent, but has become patently obvious during RLs tenure, with the odd (very rare) exception:

We get comfortably beaten by top 6 teams
We narrowly lose or draw to upper mid-table teams
We narrowly beat or draw with lower mid-table teams
We comfortably beat bottom 6 teams

That is the epitome of a mid-table team and thats exactly what we are and have been for a number of years

What will change this ?
Will RL be able to 'evolve' and learn to change this ?
If YES how long do we give him ?
Would a new manager be able to change this ?
Could a new manager take us further away from this if the wrong guy is chosen ?
Would further investment change this ?
Is this sustainable ?
Do we want to change this ?

Like I say I've over simplified a bit but when you look into it its surprising how often the above does happen
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Guess from an ownership perspective if we invest and we stand still then the argument to invest becomes a tougher sell

So you want to see a manager coach he's new talent in a way that squeezes the maximum out of them which we know easier said than done
 
Wisemen say said:
Unfortunately for us Ryan sets us up more often than not in a defensive mode, we allow the opposition the majority of possession, we defend far to deep, we play with a defensive back five and two deep lying defensive central midfielders.
The main aim seemingly not to concede,when we have possession we are slow and predictable and create few scoring chances.
Will RL change in this approach,his approach to games and giving the opposition far too much respect,instead of allowing them to worry about our formation and attacking threat.
I don't for one think he will, he is far too stubborn and believes in his system ,tactics and formation,he has rarely changed since his arrival,despite a large change in attacking and creative players.🤔
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I'll go back to my message about Lowe being a prolific scorer when he was playing. Albeit he had someone next to him providing the bullets. Why the backward focus?
 
callum-pne said:
There are a few decent managers currently out of work, I would have Nathan Jones and Wilder over Lowe - and that's no disrespect to Lowe. I think he's actually done a decent job given the resources and circumstances and if he wasn't a gob shite he'd probably have a few more admirers in our own fanbase.

I do believe we have a squad capable of playing on the front foot a bit more and the Southampton game showed that.
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It is him who spent the resources given then puts them on the bench!!!
 
RedScarBelgrade said:
If you break it down to its simplest form, this was before RL came to some extent, but has become patently obvious during RLs tenure, with the odd (very rare) exception:

We get comfortably beaten by top 6 teams
We narrowly lose or draw to upper mid-table teams
We narrowly beat or draw with lower mid-table teams
We comfortably beat bottom 6 teams

That is the epitome of a mid-table team and thats exactly what we are and have been for a number of years

What will change this ?
Will RL be able to 'evolve' and learn to change this ?
If YES how long do we give him ?
Would a new manager be able to change this ?
Could a new manager take us further away from this if the wrong guy is chosen ?
Would further investment change this ?
Is this sustainable ?
Do we want to change this ?

Like I say I've over simplified a bit but when you look into it its surprising how often the above does happen
Click to expand...

If you're saying that we are " bang average " and have been for years then you are entirely correct. I'd be surprised if anyone denies it.
 
65on said:
I'll go back to my message about Lowe being a prolific scorer when he was playing. Albeit he had someone next to him providing the bullets. Why the backward focus?
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Self preservation which you don't need to really worry about when you're playing
 
Liberation said:
If you're saying that we are " bang average " and have been for years then you are entirely correct. I'd be surprised if anyone denies it.
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I am, and I wasnt looking for anyone to confirm or deny it. Just what can be done to change it ? Can it be changed by changing manager or is there more to it than that ?
 
RedScarBelgrade said:
I am, and I wasnt looking for anyone to confirm or deny it. Just what can be done to change it ? Can it be changed by changing manager or is there more to it than that ?
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We've had our best window in a long time, if we are to progress then we also need a better tactical approach, instead of persisting with tried and failed players who are mid-table at best.

I don't think we can fault Hemmings and Ridsdale this season bar some dodgy extensions, but who knows how much input the manager has on that.
 
RedScarBelgrade said:
I am, and I wasnt looking for anyone to confirm or deny it. Just what can be done to change it ? Can it be changed by changing manager or is there more to it than that ?
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If anyone knew the answer, we'd have been promoted years ago.
To be completely honest, unless we have a freak season I can't see us being promoted in my lifetime. Depressing!
The Championship is awash wilth bigger, better supported clubs that dip in and out of the Premier League and benefit from the parachute payments that come with it.
That said, Brentford who were out of the top flight almost as long as us made it as have similar sized clubs. The frustrating thing is seeing the Luton Town's of this world getting to the Prem within ten years? of being non League.
Even feckin Blackpool and don't get me started on Bournemouth
Brighton didn't have a ground of their own that very long ago.
😢😢
 
MrHodgeheg123 said:
If anyone knew the answer, we'd have been promoted years ago.
To be completely honest, unless we have a freak season I can't see us being promoted in my lifetime. Depressing!
The Championship is awash wilth bigger, better supported clubs that dip in and out of the Premier League and benefit from the parachute payments that come with it.
That said, Brentford who were out of the top flight almost as long as us made it as have similar sized clubs. The frustrating thing is seeing the Luton Town's of this world getting to the Prem within ten years? of being non League.
Even feckin Blackpool and don't get me started on Bournemouth
Brighton didn't have a ground of their own that very long ago.
😢😢
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Burnley have had a few seasons there as well albeit this one is starting to look like a one season only stay.
They have been competitive in previous spells though.
 
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