Nobody is asking you to understand anything Gally.All those clubs you mentioned under-achieved.
Other clubs over-achieve.
And like I’ve said countless times, you should aim for the PL.
You are overachieving currently though - so I don’t understand your anger.
Outside View
Preston is a City although personally I wish we were still a town …….Tbh, I didn’t realise Preston was a city.
Assuming you’re right on that, then yes can’t disagree with that.
Years ago we were always known as a market town.
There's several definition of an Official City .
That latest accepted one is just a b.s. / Govt.-Grant-qualifying thing .
Even size-wise much tinier than Preston - Lancaster - is a City. The reasoning is that - they have Cathedral. ( Saint Peter's )
Preston's a town, really .
Hey, it made Swansea change it's name ....
That latest accepted one is just a b.s. / Govt.-Grant-qualifying thing .
Even size-wise much tinier than Preston - Lancaster - is a City. The reasoning is that - they have Cathedral. ( Saint Peter's )
Preston's a town, really .
Hey, it made Swansea change it's name ....
This all day long. I am getting mightily fed up with others like other clubs commentators, Sky TV and now allegedly fans of other bloody clubs telling us what we should expect and appreciate well personally I bloody don’t. I can’t speak for everyone but I know plenty that feel the same way. That wendy fan (if he exists) presumably watched that utter shite passing as professional football last night and any normal fan of any other club would be laughing at how crap we are. I’m not fooled one bit, either sort the club out or make way for someone that can and will. It’s getting desperate when you are making opposition fans up to put us in our place, like we are idiots. That time has well and truly come to an end no one buys the poverty stricken little club crap anymore.Riddler, Lowe or one of the Hemmings boys. No fan from another club sees one game and goes into that deep for a post. Waiting for the yearly rage post. You should all be grateful Bullshit. Revoking your Chelsea ticket etc.
I didn’t read your lecture, heard it all before many, many, many, many, many times before. Now as Billymac says go and worry about the state of your own club.I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.
Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.
I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.
According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.
Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.
You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.
Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.
You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.
This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.
The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.
Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.
Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.
I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.
Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?
I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.
Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.
Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!
Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.
Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.
Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.
Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.
You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.
Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.
I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.
At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.
Literally, the place was poor when PNE came there early on.I didn’t read your lecture, heard it all before many, many, many, many, many times before. Now as Billymac says go and worry about the state of your own club.
As in- a flipping right old-fashioned dump that last looked reasonable when Chris Waddle wore his hair like Linda McCartney.
The realism is every time we get close the money disappears and we downgrade the signings after selling players. Every club of similar size to us in the area has been in the top tier bar us. THATS THE REALISM.Far too much realism in this post for this forum.
You’re going to get absolutely slated.
I look forward to you having the biggest budget in L1 again next season.I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.
Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.
I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.
According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.
Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.
You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.
Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.
You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.
This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.
The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.
Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.
Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.
I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.
Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?
I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.
Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.
Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!
Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.
Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.
Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.
Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.
You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.
Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.
I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.
At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.
I find you odd to be honest the point is if your club is in such a damned state shouldn’t you be worried about that rather than us. Also trust me we will be a League 1 club before long too because we sure as hell aren’t going in the other direction. Established championship club my big toe, who the hell would be satisfied with that for decades at a time, not one other club, not one so don’t expect us to be either. I’m am bored and bloody fed up with watching clubs like Bolton, Wigan, Burnley and more recently Luton with a smaller crowd and budget come from non league to premiership whilst we still wring bloody hands and whine. Get lost just get lost you have no right to preach to us.That’s kind of my point.
We’ve been relegated to League One three times in the last 20 years.
One day I’d like to see us return to the PL but in the meantime, I’d love us to become an established Championship club.
We’ve got a bigger budget than you but I’d love my club to get to what your club has achieved.
Which is why I find the attitude of your fan base so odd.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2015
- Messages
- 1,212
Well said. Sums it up in a nutshell. The original post is an insult to the intelligence of the fans at this club.This all day long. I am getting mightily fed up with others like other clubs commentators, Sky TV and now allegedly fans of other bloody clubs telling us what we should expect and appreciate well personally I bloody don’t. I can’t speak for everyone but I know plenty that feel the same way. That wendy fan (if he exists) presumably watched that utter shite passing as professional football last night and any normal fan of any other club would be laughing at how crap we are. I’m not fooled one bit, either sort the club out or make way for someone that can and will. It’s getting desperate when you are making opposition fans up to put us in our place, like we are idiots. That time has well and truly come to an end no one buys the poverty stricken little club crap anymore.
Don't let him wind you up Joan, I'm confident that this poster an an ulterior motive for being here. Don't take him on.I find you odd to be honest the point is if your club is in such a damned state shouldn’t you be worried about that rather than us. Also trust me we will be a League 1 club before long too because we sure as hell aren’t going in the other direction. Established championship club my big toe, who the hell would be satisfied with that for decades at a time, not one other club, not one so don’t expect us to be either. I’m am bored and bloody fed up with watching clubs like Bolton, Wigan, Burnley and more recently Luton with a smaller crowd and budget come from non league to premiership whilst we still wring bloody hands and whine. Get lost just get lost you have no right to preach to us.
I know I shouldn’t but I’m so flippin passionate about the club being it’s absolute best, it really gets on my last nerve when our own fans shrug shoulders at acceptance of nothingness whilst every other buggar outside the club tells us we should be fine with it. I don’t see the point in PNEFC if that is all there is, where is the love, the passion, the fight, the winning and sporting mentality, it’s sad, very sad.Don't let him wind you up Joan, I'm confident that this poster an an ulterior motive for being here. Don't take him on.
It's an interesting post.
Last season I certainly would've been in the camp of not understanding why Lowe was getting so much flak based on what he was producing as the squad in final third was nothing special at all so top half for pretty much the whole season was decent even if the long spells without scoring weren't great.
This season though I do think there should be more expectation based on the Millar and Osmajic signings alone. The fact up to very recently Lowe wasn't even starting them regularly is one bone of contention.
The incredible start was never going to be maintained, there's no one on this forum giving Lowe stick he can't keep up with Leicester and Southampton as that is wholly unrealistic.
Think fanbase has a right by now to expect more the dismal home performances on other in last few months. Leeds was a quality match but I think deep down people knew it wouldn't be backed up and it wasn't.
Ultimately though Lowe is just a pawn in this. I don't think people criticise ownership for not spending money beyond their means. They do need to get criticised when it comes to a January and nothing much happens at all when team is in a promising position. That said I wouldn't give another penny to Lowe as he's shown he dosen't really have idea of how to consistently fit flair players into final third which is one way of getting out of this division the right way.
Last season I certainly would've been in the camp of not understanding why Lowe was getting so much flak based on what he was producing as the squad in final third was nothing special at all so top half for pretty much the whole season was decent even if the long spells without scoring weren't great.
This season though I do think there should be more expectation based on the Millar and Osmajic signings alone. The fact up to very recently Lowe wasn't even starting them regularly is one bone of contention.
The incredible start was never going to be maintained, there's no one on this forum giving Lowe stick he can't keep up with Leicester and Southampton as that is wholly unrealistic.
Think fanbase has a right by now to expect more the dismal home performances on other in last few months. Leeds was a quality match but I think deep down people knew it wouldn't be backed up and it wasn't.
Ultimately though Lowe is just a pawn in this. I don't think people criticise ownership for not spending money beyond their means. They do need to get criticised when it comes to a January and nothing much happens at all when team is in a promising position. That said I wouldn't give another penny to Lowe as he's shown he dosen't really have idea of how to consistently fit flair players into final third which is one way of getting out of this division the right way.
Our fans view would be that our owner is an absolute moron and that by yo-yoing between the Championship and League One we’ve massively underachieved for 25 years.
But the difference is, I think the fans of most opposing clubs would share that view of Wednesday.
You just massively overspent in that era when you had that strikeforce of Jordan Rhodes, Fletcher, Hooper, Forresteri and George Boyd.
Had to get up in those years (as Carvahal was pretty decent manager) and the play off chokes were a slow death back to league one.
Exactly far to much Realism for a fan of another club, that gathered all that from 90 minutes of Football. Its not like a Lasher, that due to rivalry keep an eye on what's going on. Its meant to be a fan from the other side of the Pennies. From 90 minutes of football, he felt the need to make an account, and reword everything Riddler puts in his Statements. Even this bit "Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules". I couldn't tell you what any other clubs owner is putting into their club or if the books are being balanced in line with FFP.Far too much realism in this post for this forum.
You’re going to get absolutely slated.
I want to also point out, no fan starts a post with a hated slang term for their Club. Sheffield Wednesday fans prefer their full name or Wednesday. The more I read it, the more convinced I sussed it straight away. Its someone from within PNE, Talk of other Clubs Budgets is a certain person at the clubs way of telling us, we should be grateful. The talk of not having a rich owner, erm they're right, we have many now, but technically not as its a trust.
I would say if this is who I think it is, I would say you never been popular, I would of thought that would of been clear from the Train back from Brantford just after he joined and the PNE fans where singing Anti him songs and got a shock when he stud up. And not been popular at any club he's touched.I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular.
I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.
Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.
I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.
According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.
Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.
You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.
Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.
You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.
This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.
The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.
Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.
Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.
I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.
Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?
I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.
Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.
Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!
Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.
Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.
Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.
Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.
You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.
Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.
I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.
At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.
Shouldn’t you lot be concerned about relegation with your massive crowds rather than posting on an opposition forum giving it Billy big bollocks?
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- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 14,839
I think he's gone now.....after all, it is Saturday Night 😉Shouldn’t you lot be concerned about relegation with your massive crowds rather than posting on an opposition forum giving it Billy big bollocks?
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 29,601
Nice one Joan. 🙂I know I shouldn’t but I’m so flippin passionate about the club being it’s absolute best, it really gets on my last nerve when our own fans shrug shoulders at acceptance of nothingness whilst every other buggar outside the club tells us we should be fine with it. I don’t see the point in PNEFC if that is all there is, where is the love, the passion, the fight, the winning and sporting mentality, it’s sad, very sad.
If there’s no ambition, then what’s the point?
Apparently “big” clubs like Sheff Weds have a right to be ambitious but we don’t!
Try telling Luton, Bournemouth and Brentford that.
JK is the Boss, Big Admin. I think you will find he is more trusting with Personal details, than someone has been related to PNE. As he has said many many times over the years, specially in the years our Rivals on both sides had owner issues, he wouldn't share user details unless compelled to do so by a Judge. He also keeps his moderators to these rules, so I find your accusation against the forum owner insulting. Leave your apology for JK and the Forum Moderators at reception on the way out. Watch for the door, its windy and it will slam shut.I’ll leave it there because I don’t like the thought of an over enthusiastic moderator leaking my details
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 29,601
I don’t like the thought of an over enthusiastic moderator leaking my details which would no doubt result in overly passionate football fans bombarding my email.
That won't happen with this forum but I can't speak for yours. If you don't like it on here then feel free to piss off back to your own forum (assuming you're not PNE) and log off this one.