Skip to main content

Outside View

Outside View

AssemblyAtWembley said:
No, you are misunderstanding my point.

First of all, Luton had revenue 30% higher than yours.

Secondly, I’m Not saying you should not aim for the EPL, I’m saying you shouldn’t be outraged when you are 11th in The Championship- which is a big difference.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for telling us what to think and feel. Now go forth and figure it out for yourself.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.

Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.

Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.

You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.

Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.

You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.

This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.

The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.

Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.

Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.

I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.

Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?

I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.

Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.

Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!

Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.

Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.

Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.

Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.

You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.

Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.

I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.

At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.
Click to expand...
Fucking hell gallynuge has created an alt account..
 
Michael said:
4 wins in 18 and you say we should be happy?!

There's a lot more to football than money. Which you've already pointed out yourself in highlighting your yo-yoing.

Money may buy better tools, but if the handyman isn't good enough it's futile.

If money and attendances dictated everything we'd never have seen Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, West Ham, Sunderland etc playing in the second/third tier.

Some of the lowest budget teams often play the best football, because they are striving to be better. It's very rare that that applies to us, because we rarely get the balance of recruitment right. We often have the right manager but sign the wrong players, or sign the right players but appoint the wrong manager.

But what I suppose this boils down to is arrogance. You worry about Wednesday and let us worry about Preston. Don't really know how someone with no knowledge of Preston as a club or city can think they have any right to come and tell us how to feel about our club.
Click to expand...
All those clubs you mentioned under-achieved.

Other clubs over-achieve.

And like I’ve said countless times, you should aim for the PL.

You are overachieving currently though - so I don’t understand your anger.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
But a billionaire can only do so much with the garbage FFP guidelines.

All he can basically do is improve your infrastructure and Chuck in £39m every three year cycle in top - which he appears to be doing.

To get to the EPL, you either need to overcome a financial Mismatch probably not seen since Blackpool got promoted or increase revenue.

The only logical way to increase revenue would seem to be increased gate receipts.

So are you willing to pay these prices?

Matchday ticket prices - Sheffield Wednesday

SWFC Matchday ticket prices for 2017/18 Sky Bet Championship season
www.swfc.co.uk www.swfc.co.uk
Click to expand...

So if we increase out ticket prices we'll have more chance of getting to the Premier League?

Luckily we have an owner who doesn't take the piss out of us when it comes to matchdays 🤣

Never read such bollocks in my life, if that was the case you would have been in the Premier sometime in the last 23 years ...when the reality is little old Preston have arguably been more successful and stable than you over that period 👍

All t'best paying £45 to watch shite ......
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
No, you are misunderstanding my point.

First of all, Luton had revenue 30% higher than yours.

Secondly, I’m Not saying you should not aim for the EPL, I’m saying you shouldn’t be outraged when you are 11th in The Championship- which is a big difference.
Click to expand...
Which season are you measuring the revenue for?

The one where they achieved promotion?

There is little to no point discussing this with you. You’re entitled to an opinion but you’re wrong. Cheers.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
All those clubs you mentioned under-achieved.

Other clubs over-achieve.

And like I’ve said countless times, you should aim for the PL.

You are overachieving currently though - so I don’t understand your anger.
Click to expand...
Then don't try and understand it. You aren't a pne fan. You are using one game and unfeeling stats to try and explain an emotional reaction.
 
Thank you for taking all that time to tell us all what we already knew regarding our clubs finances,owners,attendances and support,very much appreciated.
Now let's talk about the most important thing,the football being played week in and week out.
If you had read thoroughly the posts on the forum you would have understood that even with all the other stats you have quoted.
The inconsistent,negative and at times boring football we are being fed, even with the squad we have assembled with our below average budget for the division is not acceptable or palatable.🤔
Whilst no games are a given,last night's result against your team,second bottom in the division, with a minus 21 goal difference and only 5 wins all season including last night,speaks volumes for why there is so much unrest and why we are not " exceeding or meeting expectations."
If I was in your shoes as a Sheffield Wednesday fan I'd be far more concerned about your clubs 23rd position, second bottom and how you are going to achieve enough points between now and the end of season to avoid relegation, rather than posting on another fans forum.
Oh by the way, I do think that unless change occurs we could end up being dragged in to a relegation battle with yourselves with our current form.☹️
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
All those clubs you mentioned under-achieved.

Other clubs over-achieve.

And like I’ve said countless times, you should aim for the PL.

You are overachieving currently though - so I don’t understand your anger.
Click to expand...
No you don't - you don't understand anything.

As for overachieving - our league position suggests we aren't (I must hasten to add that our league position doesn't suggest things are 'all well').

The fact is you know fuck all about our club - we've been unhappy with a number of things (Lowe, Ridsdale, the general running of the club - just to name a few things) but you very patronisingly suggest we should settle down and be happy with mediocrity.

All in all, you are in no position to lecture us on how we should feel about our club,
 
Robert Edwards said:
So if we increase out ticket prices we'll have more chance of getting to the Premier League?

Luckily we have an owner who doesn't take the piss out of us when it comes to matchdays 🤣

Never read such bollocks in my life, if that was the case you would have been in the Premier sometime in the last 23 years ...when the reality is little old Preston have arguably been more successful and stable than you over that period 👍

All t'best paying £45 to watch shite ......
Click to expand...
Yet again, you make my point perfectly.
 
Read a bit of the OP and have not read anymore of the thread, but I’ll go out on a limb and assume this is Peter, Badges or one of their inner circle.

Perhaps it’s Ben Woodburn as part of a deal to keep more of the appearance bonus deal he has with Badges.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
But Villa and Brighton fans are currently delighted that their teams are doing better than all financial metrics say they should.

Which again is my point.

You lot aren’t.
Click to expand...
And my point is, according to your point, we should be grateful for what we are being served up cos we are just a smal ler club with smaller income than the .other clubs......... so what is the point of.it all, then? You must mean that we should accept it and expect no more? Well, accordingly, so should Brighton and Villa! I was being sacrcastic...... I was also showing that a good coach or manager can have a team 'punching above its weight', playing football to.its strengths and not accepting the status quo...... who knows, maybe Villa may dare to finish in the top 4? Maybe the top 4 richest clubs won't finish in the top 4? you see, it doesn't only have to be about money, fingers crossed
 
Wisemen say said:
Thank you for taking all that time to tell us all what we already knew regarding our finances,owners,attendances and support,very much appreciated.
Now let's talk about the most important thing,the football being played week in and week out.
If you had read thoroughly the posts on the forum you would have understood that even with all the other stats you have quoted.
The inconsistent,negative and at times boring football we are being fed, even with the squad we have assembled with our below average budget for the division is not acceptable or palatable.🤔
Whilst no games are a given,last night's result against your team,second bottom in the division, with a minus 21 goal difference and only 5 wins all season including last night,speaks volumes for why there is so much unrest and why we are not " exceeding or meeting expectations."
If I was in your shoes as a Sheffield Wednesday fan I'd be far more concerned about your clubs 23rd position, second bottom and how you are going to achieve enough points between now and the end of season to avoid relegation, rather than posting on another fans forum.
Oh by the way, I do think that unless change occurs we could end up being dragged in to a relegation battle with yourselves with our current form.☹️
Click to expand...
All mid table teams are inconsistent, that’s why they’re mid table.

You already have 35 points. You aren’t going to get less than 15 more to go into a relegation battle.

I am more concerned about the plight of Wednesday than an well run established Championship club that consistently comes higher than its budget should allow.

Which yet again - is my point.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
No, you are misunderstanding my point.

First of all, Luton had revenue 30% higher than yours.

Secondly, I’m Not saying you should not aim for the EPL, I’m saying you shouldn’t be outraged when you are 11th in The Championship- which is a big difference.
Click to expand...
I really can't believe your basing pretty much the entirety of your argument on revenue.
Is this really what it's come to in the mindsets of fans like yourself?
You just sound like a lazy freelance journalist from the outside lookin in to me.
Basing everything on revenue an crowd attendances without seeing the bigger picture.
It's a lazy effort from you at best
 
Naughton's moustache said:
I really can't believe your basing pretty much the entirety of your argument on revenue.
Is this really what it's come to in the mindsets of fans like yourself?
You just sound like a lazy freelance journalist from the outside lookin in to me.
Basing everything on revenue an crowd attendances without seeing the bigger picture.
It's a lazy effort from you at best
Click to expand...

Revenue, and more pertinently, money spent should give you a general guide on where you should be expecting to finish, though it's clearly not the be all and end all. And expectations are not the same as what's possible.

Question is, what do you think are the expectations given to the manager when he signs a contract to work here? If you think it's 'finish top 6', I think you'll be sorely disappointed.
 
AssemblyAtWembley said:
All mid table teams are inconsistent, that’s why they’re mid table.

You already have 35 points. You aren’t going to get less than 15 more to go into a relegation battle.
Click to expand...

If we continue on the form we've been in for the last 18 games we'll get 18 more points this season. If our form drops further, or even if a few decisions go against us, our goalscorers/best players get injured or anything like that, getting 15 or fewer points is very possible
 
Back
Top