Outside View

[nigelscamelcoat]

Again, only if you want to play football based on accounts. If it was that simple, you could avoid the actual playing of games.

It does sound like our man would be more welcome on a forum for coders.😉

 

[Walmer88]

My Sheff U in-laws have always told me about them weird Wednesday fans…very easy to sound clever on a forum - also very easy to completely misjudge something you know nothing about.

A lot of waffle on what we already know and in a nutshell, we might as well not think about promotion because of our finances and how we’re apparently ‘punching above our weight’.

Although regarding ‘punching above our weight’ - when you look at our league positions since coming back up, our lowest finish is 14th with the rest being in and around the top 10. We have generally finished around the 60 point mark, so I think that term is a load of rubbish. What it clearly points to, is that you don’t have to have all the money and the best players to do well in this league (you could argue the league is over-hyped). The top 2 are usually on their own, 3rd/4th following behind and that leaves 5th (and/or) 6th up for grabs. Fans need to stop looking at stats exclusively when passing comment or judgement, because there is more to it than that.

Our problem since coming back up is goals scored/conceded. We consistently finish close to 0 goal difference or minus - the only season we’ve done well, we finished 7th on +14 goal difference. Based on that, as we already know, it’s a failure to recruit properly in defence and have any real credible threat upfront.

 

[MBcha]

You are 11th.

You likely have the 22nd biggest budget. Above Rotherham and Plymouth.

I’d call that overachieving.

Where do you live Mr Sheffield Wednesday fan?

 

[bkfu76]

I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.

Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.

Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.

You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.

Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.

You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.

This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.

The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.

Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.

Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.

I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.

Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?

I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.

Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.

Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!

Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.

Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.

Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.

Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.

You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.

Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.

I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.

At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.

Your post is about financials…Sheffield wed we’re doing crap with the previous manager…once you got a manager who knew wot he was doing you can now see the difference with the possibility of now staying up…same players different manager who has managed to turn the team around…I believe with a manager similar to yours he would improve PNE and at least be pushing for top 6.

 

[MBcha]

He isn't who he says he is folks. I wouldn't waste time engaging with him.

 

[Doc Brown]

He isn't who he says he is folks. I wouldn't waste time engaging with him.

IP address the giveaway?

 

[PrestonUltras81]

Again, only if you want to play football based on accounts. If it was that simple, you could avoid the actual playing of games.

I wonder how true this thought of not playing the games is.... not all games, but sure the European Super League is based on not wanting to play the smaller, poorer clubs at all; they are an irrelevance that get in the way of theor 'deserved' success

 

[OOOO3]

I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.

Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.

Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.

You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.

Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.

You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.

This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.

The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.

Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.

Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.

I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.

Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?

I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.

Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.

Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!

Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.

Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.

Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.

Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.

You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.

Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.

I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.

At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.

We have done these numbers to death. No one is expecting we get promoted however 16 points in the last 18 games and 2 shots on target against a very poor Sheff Wed last night is not good enough to keep the manager.

 

[Libertine]

Thank you Mr Ridsdale.
It’s nice to hear from you again.

 

[OOOO3]

He isn't who he says he is folks. I wouldn't waste time engaging with him.

Might aswell merge the post as it’s same responses

 

[Lee Trundle]

Can’t wait til this lot fuck off back to League One where they belong

 

[billymac]

But a billionaire can only do so much with the garbage FFP guidelines.

All he can basically do is improve your infrastructure and Chuck in £39m every three year cycle in top - which he appears to be doing.

To get to the EPL, you either need to overcome a financial Mismatch probably not seen since Blackpool got promoted or increase revenue.

The only logical way to increase revenue would seem to be increased gate receipts.

So are you willing to pay these prices?

Matchday ticket prices - Sheffield Wednesday

SWFC Matchday ticket prices for 2017/18 Sky Bet Championship season

www.swfc.co.uk

Weds like other tight Yorkshire clubs use a membership scheme offering members a discount on matchday sales, this lets you charge opposing fans full price, you ARE tight Yorkshire Bastards.

 

[billymac]

All those clubs you mentioned under-achieved.

Other clubs over-achieve.

And like I’ve said countless times, you should aim for the PL.

You are overachieving currently though - so I don’t understand your anger.

will Mrs Lowey please step away from the computer.

 

[shabbagaz]

He isn't who he says he is folks. I wouldn't waste time engaging with him.

All the hallmarks of gallynuge

 

[billymac]

Weds like other tight Yorkshire clubs use a membership scheme offering members a discount on matchday sales, this lets you charge opposing fans full price, you ARE tight Yorkshire Bastards.

ooops, sorry for giving you this idea Peter!!!

 

[Preston Lad]

“We don’t have a rich benefactor”

 

[noelpne]

I wonder how true this thought of not playing the games is.... not all games, but sure the European Super League is based on not wanting to play the smaller, poorer clubs at all; they are an irrelevance that get in the way of theor 'deserved' success

That's the proof why nowadays the "Glorious History of the Oldest Football Cup Competion" is nearly an irrelevance for the big 6/7 and also why Terrestrial TV ( Beeb, ITV etc )has to big-up with the constantly repeated ancient footage of Stanley Matthews, Ricky Villa & the 'Miracle of little Wimbledon ' to justify those few crumbs of live football it gets thrown to them every season.

 

[Aqueous]

All the hallmarks of gallynuge

They must be a very sad person to make a new username to post the same shit on a different teams fans forum. Wow.
Looking forward to the "Sunderland" fan arriving to tell us we're overachieving in a couple of days.

 

[Ando60]

Long story short, we know it looks weird from the outside, but our form has been horrific for months now- and we're only in a half decent position because we had a lucky string of wins to start the season- our defence is leaky, and our attack is impotent. Once our luck ran out and started reverting to the results that you'd expect for our level of chance creation, we've been largely shocking.

Absolutely spot on….

People don’t see the tactics that we have to endure week in , week out.

The OP makes some fair points though…..

 

[Morse]

I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.

Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.

Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.

Can I respectfully suggest that you mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself. Despite all the statistics you feel compelled to quote you know little or nothing about the history or culture of our club. It seems to me that you and your club have more than enough problems of your own to worry about without concerning yourself with ours.