Outside View

[Earlofcurl]

I don’t really care who this is, the message is: “you should be content with what you’re getting”.
My reply is: I work, and at weekends I would like to spend some of my time/wages doing enjoyable things. If I wanted to watch people huffing and puffing but not achieving much then I could go and watch someone mucking a stable out.
We pay to watch professional footballers do the things we can’t/couldn’t do, be it great defending, unbelievable saves, skill or scoring goals.
No one on here expects Preston to win the division but we do expect to go into a match set up to compete. Where we are in the table, to me, is secondary.
With the wages and opportunity PNE offers all its employees, I expect more than what I am seeing at the moment on and off the pitch. I think I have seen enough of managers setting teams up to save their jobs and Directors lazily subbing out income streams.

One other point whilst we are in the thread of stating what most of us already know. On this side of the Penines we have 4 established Premier League clubs, including the most successful clubs of recent times, within easy travelling distance. All of these clubs arguably offer better football plus we have just as many “hometown” clubs. Preston compete for fans in a tougher market than Yorkshire clubs.

 

[The Splash]

Trust me, what PR did is the tip of the iceberg to what goes on.

Trust me, what is reported within that piece is only the tip of his iceberg.

 

[JK]

Now we know PR's username.

To claify we have no reason to believe this is Peter Ridsdale.

Peter doesn't go on social media or the forum remember 😜

 

[tcinders]

It isn't somebody from within the club, but based on the industry that the poster works in it is very fair to assume that they have had dealings with somebody at our club at a high level.

Possibly more than once.

Was it someone involved with the club some years ago who was a Wednesday fan?

 

[Silverback]

To claify we have no reason to believe this is Peter Ridsdale.

Peter doesn't go on social media or the forum remember 😜

 

[Town__Ender]

I’m a SWFC fan and as I usually do when we have a match, I take a look at how the opposing fans are feeling about things.

Hopefully, I’m not breaking any rules by posting this thread and it’ll be taken in the spirit it’s intended.

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

According to the poll on this forum, nearly 80% of you think Lowe should be sacked - which massively surprised me.

Looking at it from the outside, it seems he is exceeding or at the very least meeting what should be expected.

You’ve got the 18th largest average attendance in the division. You are only averaging a few hundred more than QPR, Plymouth, Millwall and Swansea - all of whom have considerably less away fans through the door than you. Therefore, in terms of home supporter base, you are currently 22nd in the division, only ahead of Blackburn and Rotherham.

Every single one of the six teams with smaller averages is below you in the league table.

You don’t have a rich benefactor, so it is reasonable to assume that the teams above you in the league average attendance all have bigger budgets than you. Especially, since most of those teams are backed by wealthy owners and many have parachute payments.

This is backed up by your latest accounts (for 2022) which show your wage bill to be under £22m, comparatively small in the division. However, when you take into account of player amortisation, you are running at an operating loss of circa £20m. Obviously, for FFP purposes, some of these losses wouldn’t count towards the permitted losses of £39m over three seasons. However, maybe I was wrong when earlier I said you didn’t have a rich benefactor as it appears your owners must be basically losing very close to the permitted FFP amount every year.

The reason you can’t spend more is your modest turnover of £13.8m. For comparable purposes, Sheffield Wednesday had turnover of £16.3m in League One, therefore in The Championship their turnover is likely to be £10m higher than yours with the extra solidarity and TV payments.

Not only are your crowds small for the division, but the ticket prices you pay are also far below average. This can be evidenced by even a club like Luton (in 2022 so the year before they got promoted), had turnover of £17.7m.

Blackburn are one of the two clubs getting lower home support in numbers than you, but their turnover was £16.6m in 2022 - over 20% higher than yours.

I look at the teams immediately above you in the table and then compare their 2022 revenue figures and those of Sunderland, Bristol City, Boro’s and Watfords (due to parachute payments) dwarf yours.

Therefore, I’m struggling to see who is above you that you realistically think you should be above?

I then look at the teams below you. Coventry City had a turnover of £18m in 2022 and spent a fortune this Summer. Norwich have parachute payments, Stoke, Birmingham and Wednesday have far bigger budgets. Therefore, it appears lots of clubs would expect to be above you but aren’t.

Certainly in terms of budgets, Lowe has you punching well above your weight.

Then I’ve seen various comments that other clubs without big budgets have managed to get promotion to the PL. But unless I’m missing one, I don’t think a club with as smaller budget as yours has managed it for very many years!

Luton are perhaps the closest but I showed above that their revenue was still 30% higher than yours in 2022.

Bournemouth and Brentford are definitely historically smaller clubs but they had owners that backed them heavily and at the right time. There’s no way Bournemouth would get away nowadays (under heavier FFP legislation) with the losses they originally incurred to get into the EPL for the first time. Once they were in they then got locked into the parachute payment merry go round.

Brentford’s model allowed them to make huge profits on player sales (something no other club has managed to successfully replicate) but even then their turnover from day to day activities was £15.2m back in 18/19.

Therefore, and I guess in summary, to an outsider like me it appears that you are punching well above your weight.

You don’t get enough fans through the gate to achieve any more. And the fans you do get, don’t pay enough for your tickets. You would buck every trend going, if you managed to get to the PL and you are currently achieving pretty much the ceiling of what can reasonably be expected.

Your owner appears to be chucking in cash to the limit of what is permitted under FFP rules.

I totally accept that this post probably my won’t make me popular. But come on guys, what am I missing? It appears that your budget should probably make you are club that yo-yo’s between League One and The Championship but you are an established Championship club that is never in the conversations about relegation.

At the moment you just look like Charlton fans did whinging about coming mid table in the PL every year.

AssemblyatWembley, what you say may or may not be true. However, the reason most fans want Ryan Lowe out is because they believe our squad is underperforming. With regard to what a club like Preston should expect, there are plenty of example of clubs who have gone up against the odds, the most resent being Luton. So our fan base is quite right in not being prepared to accept we should be there to make the numbers up in the Championship every season.

 

[The Splash]

To claify we have no reason to believe this is Peter Ridsdale.

Peter doesn't go on social media or the forum remember 😜

But he has a “friend” who does. 🤪

 

[noelpne]

Which is why I find the attitude of your fan base so odd.

" B E...H A P P Y...W I T H....Y O U R....L O T "

is your not-so-subliminal-message to us.

With the greatest of respect - "Get stuffed" is my response.

 

[deepdaledreamer]

Think along the lines of football administration.

Surely the EFL are not involving themselves in little old Preston's over achieving status??? 🤔

 

[MBcha]

Surely the EFL are not involving themselves in little old Preston's over achieving status??? 🤔

Not that kind of admin 😂

 

[deepdaledreamer]

Not that kind of admin 😂

Phew!!!!

 

[The Splash]

Surely the EFL are not involving themselves in little old Preston's over achieving status??? 🤔

Think more of the type Robert Peter specialises in. 😜

 

[Henrys Cat]

Now we know PR's username.

There have been several posts from moderators and The Site owner saying that is not so.

 

[Silverback]

There have been several posts from moderators and The Site owner saying that is not so.

I know. I was just taking the piss.

 

[stf4ever]

I can remember Sheff Wednesday in the top flight during my lifetime.

It's been over double my lifetime since North End were in the top flight.

We just want a chance to dream.

 

[IanBogie9]

I’d like to see a list of our finishing positions from 2000 to 2023.

Anyone know if this is available easily ?

 

[deepdaledreamer]

I’d like to see a list of our finishing positions from 2000 to 2023.

Anyone know if this is available easily ?

No and its New Years Eve and more than slightly pissed 🤣
And also a bit sad to be on here at such a time.
What ever happened to youth??🤔🤣

 

[PNE4_1]

I’ve not felt the desire to open an account on another teams forum for many years, but the opinions I’ve read on here are so far removed from what I expected that I felt compelled.

Your opinions are far removed from what we actually feel , you've tried to come across as educated and all you've done is make a tit of yourself by patronising us.

At least we're the biggest club in our City though ..... silver lining's and all that.

Hahahah good one -_-

 

[PNE4_1]

That's that, then. All fans of all clubs, just give up. Here comes the European Super League, but remember only disgustingly rich clubs allowed.....

BTW, you do know that fans through the turnstiles means very little to.the rich big boys, don't you? isn't there a well known saying (to those who like stats😉) that when a club is relegated to the Championship, they could let every fan in for nothing and still dwarf the incomes of the other clubs without parachute payments..... wake up and smell the coffee, fans don't count in modern football and you as a SW fan should know this all too well, so don't come on here spouting 'truth' when we as small fry supporters are just trying to say 'hey, fans' opinions still count'.

Fans don't count...

I get that you're trying to make a point


But if you think the 5k plus Wednesday fans didn't have an impact on that game you are sorely mistaken

 

[PNE4_1]

With our current form, we may just achieve that 15 plus point haul in our remaining games.
Should we have a dip in our current form, then I feel we may end up battling to avoid being dragged in to a relegation battle.
In your shoes I'd be far more concerned on how you are going to achieve those 30 plus points or so to ensure you are still not playing a division below"The Blades." next season.

A recent rival from a team who by the way just beat us, pipes up and gives a slightly patronising but fairly educated view on our outlook. Congratulations on completely putting this interesting view to bed by disregarding everything he's said and pointing to a club ("the blades") that matter not to us or this post but seemingly matter to you. Surely none of our neighbours have ever achieved more than us...