Skip to main content

Over achieving / under achieving

Over achieving / under achieving

B

Blackpoolgetbattered

Joined
Sep 1, 2021
Messages
42
Are fans in right frame of mind saying we are under achieving !!?

1 permanent signing rest off job centre and loans.

People complain he ain’t attacking enough especially at home (I’ve been on that bus at times!)

Away to Swansea who (keep ball best in league bar Dingles) we was so attacking early it hurt us pressed so/to high, look at first goal…

We attack vs good teams we get hurt so he found a way to be in games, not always great to watch get this man some players he wants, see a hell of a difference.. Millwall away we was best team Got 0 points . Can’t do right for doing wrong
 
Blackpoolgetbattered said:
Are fans in right frame of mind saying we are under achieving !!?

1 permanent signing rest off job centre and loans.

People complain he ain’t attacking enough especially at home (I’ve been on that bus at times!)

Away to Swansea who (keep ball best in league bar Dingles) we was so attacking early it hurt us pressed so/to high, look at first goal…

We attack vs good teams we get hurt so he found a way to be in games, not always great to watch get this man some players he wants, see a hell of a difference.. Millwall away we was best team Got 0 points . Can’t do right for doing wrong
Click to expand...
The press against Swansea was awful.
It's not just about running at players an closing them down, it's about winning the ball back an breaking up play.
Let me know how many times we were successful at that.
It happened on a few occasions today too.
Seriously need to sort that out Lowe
 
There's no doubt he has over achieved. I think in the two seasons he's been here he has been helped by two Roy of The Rovers type mercurial talents in both Archer and Cannon but you manage what's in front of you and there's no saying that trend of signing a worldy can't continue.

There are bloody annoying traits about Lowe but a good manager? No question about that. He just is. The data says it, the underlying numbers say it, the league table says it and the amount spent column really bloody says it.

He killed our season for me at Swansea and the treatment of his most talented players in the shape of Riis and Bambo leaves a hell of a lot to be desired.

I fear.for us next season but that's because of Ridsdale and Hemmings, not our well groomed Scouse manager.
 
As I say the attacking vs Swansea in the press vs Swansea hurt us ^^ can do it vs certain teams Lowe attacked that game vs a possession based team to win ball high and it massively back fired we sit back and lose 1-0 then we didn’t go for it peeps say negative… we went for it to play dif to what we play and what teams play vs Swansea he knows it never worked… the players not good enough but, he as a manager gave it a go, that’s the truth…probs why s**te head ledson started
… let’s hope loan market is nice next season and the players we want aren’t wanting elsewhere on freebies.. we get runts of litter .. again!
 
If you gave Lowe the sort of same money Neil did i think we could of brought in some absolute gems, you only need to look at the names we were being linked with and see how well they are doing. The summer budget is completely unknown as i assume they are going to address contract situations first but they must bring in at least one player involving a fee and i hope to god its a RWB, that's all i can say.
 
Some of Lowe's press talk is irritating, to say the least and he needs to find a way to get more out of Riis next season. That said, I don't think anyone can deny how well he's done with limited resources. It wouldn't surprise me if he's given a chance at a championship club with a bigger budget in the future.
 
Sunderland have an average attendance this season of 38000 we have 16000 , Sunderland tickets are £35 , then concessions £25 over 65 , £22 under 22 , £12 kids so if you use an average of £28 a ticket, thats an extra £616000 going into that club for every home match, there's not going to be a need of £116000 to be spent on staff overheads etc so well over half a million a game, £11.5M over the season, plus food & drink sales, so yes I would say we are overachieving. Middlesborough, Sheff Utd , Norwich all over 25k, West Brom, Stoke, Bristol all 20k plus. we are 15th so the argument depends on where you finish in the league relative to money coming through the turnstiles.
Hats off to Luton (haha) bottom of the league on attendance and definitely over achieving massivly, it can be done.
stats: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-championship-2022-2023/1/
 
tarantino said:
Sunderland have an average attendance this season of 38000 we have 16000 , Sunderland tickets are £35 , then concessions £25 over 65 , £22 under 22 , £12 kids so if you use an average of £28 a ticket, thats an extra £616000 going into that club for every home match, there's not going to be a need of £116000 to be spent on staff overheads etc so well over half a million a game, £11.5M over the season, plus food & drink sales, so yes I would say we are overachieving. Middlesborough, Sheff Utd , Norwich all over 25k, West Brom, Stoke, Bristol all 20k plus. we are 15th so the argument depends on where you finish in the league relative to money coming through the turnstiles.
Hats off to Luton (haha) bottom of the league on attendance and definitely over achieving massivly, it can be done.
stats: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-championship-2022-2023/1/
Click to expand...
I'm not in the know or anything close to that,,,,, does anyone know how Luton are in respect to profit/loss (or ffp or whatever the EFL is calling it now?) Because if they are massively overspending that could explain the massive over achieving.
 
southernwhite said:
I'm not in the know or anything close to that,,,,, does anyone know how Luton are in respect to profit/loss (or ffp or whatever the EFL is calling it now?) Because if they are massively overspending that could explain the massive over achieving.
Click to expand...
These are their main numbers in comparison to ours for last season:

TurnoverWagesProfit/(Loss)
Luton£17.66m£17.82m(£6.38m)
PNE£12.41m£23.97m(£15.57m)
 
I can’t understand how we are so close to the playoffs with just two games to go, because for most of the season I’ve just seen posts on here saying, the manager is shit, the players are shit, the board are shit, after all these expert opinions why are we not below the donkey fiddlers?
 
TheWarehouse said:
I can’t understand how we are so close to the playoffs with just two games to go, because for most of the season I’ve just seen posts on here saying, the manager is shit, the players are shit, the board are shit, after all these expert opinions why are we not below the donkey fiddlers?
Click to expand...

Because the quality in this division is the lowest it has ever been.

We have a pretty poor squad, that are slightly better than some of the other crap in this division.

Our best players, Fernandez and Cannon aren't even our players ffs.

You're not a better fan because you think Ryan Ledson and Liam Lindsay are good footballers.
 
Warton PNE said:
Because the quality in this division is the lowest it has ever been.

We have a pretty poor squad, that are slightly better than some of the other crap in this division.

Our best players, Fernandez and Cannon aren't even our players ffs.

You're not a better fan because you think Ryan Ledson and Liam Lindsay are good footballers.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying anyone is good or bad, I’m saying we are a lot better from top to bottom than many on this site believe, otherwise we’d be down with Wigan and blackpoo, I’m not convinced the standard is any worse I just think several teams have closed the gap if they can field their first choice eleven
 
outreacher said:
I wonder why our turnover is so low compared to Luton?
Click to expand...
They made more than us in all categories; matchday, league distributions (including televised games) and commercial.

From their 2022 strategic report (with our corresponding numbers interposed):

With government restrictions finally lifted and fans returning to Kenilworth Road, all categories of matchday revenue including tickets, hospitality and catering saw a strong recovery. Overall matchday related revenue which had dropped from £4.1m to £1.1m in the prior year, increased to £4.9m [PNE: £3.0m] thanks in no small part to the FA Cup tie against Chelsea and the Championship play-off semi-final first leg.​
​
Central distributions (including broadcasting and media income) increased compared to the prior year, from £9.6m to £10.5m [PNE: £8.0m]. This increase was driven by the team's superb performances on the pitch, leading to extensive media coverage and a larger than expected number of televised matches.​

Their commercial income, at £2.3m [PNE: £1.1m], was also double ours.
 
Thracia said:
They made more than us in all categories; matchday, league distributions (including televised games) and commercial.

From their 2022 strategic report (with our corresponding numbers interposed):

With government restrictions finally lifted and fans returning to Kenilworth Road, all categories of matchday revenue including tickets, hospitality and catering saw a strong recovery. Overall matchday related revenue which had dropped from £4.1m to £1.1m in the prior year, increased to £4.9m [PNE: £3.0m] thanks in no small part to the FA Cup tie against Chelsea and the Championship play-off semi-final first leg.​
​
Central distributions (including broadcasting and media income) increased compared to the prior year, from £9.6m to £10.5m [PNE: £8.0m]. This increase was driven by the team's superb performances on the pitch, leading to extensive media coverage and a larger than expected number of televised matches.​

Their commercial income, at £2.3m [PNE: £1.1m], was also double ours.
Click to expand...

I noticed they also referenced that wages were higher because the on field performances were triggering bonuses, so they get more TV coverage to fund the bonuses that come with playing well. Rather than just rewarding for turning up each week.
 
Thracia said:
These are their main numbers in comparison to ours for last season:

TurnoverWagesProfit/(Loss)
Luton£17.66m£17.82m(£6.38m)
PNE£12.41m£23.97m(£15.57m)
Click to expand...

outreacher said:
I wonder why our turnover is so low compared to Luton?
Click to expand...

I looked at Luton's accounts a few weeks ago, and they bettered us in all 3 sub-categories of turnover, and in 2 of them I can't explain why that should be.

Matchday Income: They declared £1.86m more than our £3.01m. I'm not too sure how they can get 61% more matchday income than us, given their average attendance. The only thing that I noticed was that tney seem to charge the same price for an Adult ST irrespective of where you sit on the ground. Even so that wouldn't account for such a difference.

League distributions and TV etc.: This came in at a whopping £2.4m more than us (£10.46 v £8.06). Once again, I can't explain the difference.

Commercial etc: Luton brought in £2.32m to our £1.34m. This can be explained by our former owner's and current CEO/Director of Football's complacency towards this income stream.

The difference in expenditure on wages can be explained by the fact that we are an established Championship club, whilst many of their employees may have still been on League 1 contracts. These figures are all for the year ending June 2022. I expect that Luton's staff costs will have increased this year, whilst ours will have fallen. One cautionary note, however, is that despite our wages expenditure being 34% higher than theirs, our total number of employees were significantly lower than theirs - 113 to 188 (110 on Football Operations alone at Luton).
 
Meldrew's Ghost said:
I looked at Luton's accounts a few weeks ago, and they bettered us in all 3 sub-categories of turnover, and in 2 of them I can't explain why that should be.

Matchday Income: They declared £1.86m more than our £3.01m. I'm not too sure how they can get 61% more matchday income than us, given their average attendance. The only thing that I noticed was that tney seem to charge the same price for an Adult ST irrespective of where you sit on the ground. Even so that wouldn't account for such a difference.

League distributions and TV etc.: This came in at a whopping £2.4m more than us (£10.46 v £8.06). Once again, I can't explain the difference.

Commercial etc: Luton brought in £2.32m to our £1.34m. This can be explained by our former owner's and current CEO/Director of Football's complacency towards this income stream.

The difference in expenditure on wages can be explained by the fact that we are an established Championship club, whilst many of their employees may have still been on League 1 contracts. These figures are all for the year ending June 2022. I expect that Luton's staff costs will have increased this year, whilst ours will have fallen. One cautionary note, however, is that despite our wages expenditure being 34% higher than theirs, our total number of employees were significantly lower than theirs - 113 to 188 (110 on Football Operations alone at Luton).
Click to expand...

Bugger! Just seen that @Thracia has posted the same data whilst I was 2 finger typing my post. 😂
 
Meldrew's Ghost said:
I looked at Luton's accounts a few weeks ago, and they bettered us in all 3 sub-categories of turnover, and in 2 of them I can't explain why that should be.

Matchday Income: They declared £1.86m more than our £3.01m. I'm not too sure how they can get 61% more matchday income than us, given their average attendance. The only thing that I noticed was that tney seem to charge the same price for an Adult ST irrespective of where you sit on the ground. Even so that wouldn't account for such a difference.

League distributions and TV etc.: This came in at a whopping £2.4m more than us (£10.46 v £8.06). Once again, I can't explain the difference.

Commercial etc: Luton brought in £2.32m to our £1.34m. This can be explained by our former owner's and current CEO/Director of Football's complacency towards this income stream.

The difference in expenditure on wages can be explained by the fact that we are an established Championship club, whilst many of their employees may have still been on League 1 contracts. These figures are all for the year ending June 2022. I expect that Luton's staff costs will have increased this year, whilst ours will have fallen. One cautionary note, however, is that despite our wages expenditure being 34% higher than theirs, our total number of employees were significantly lower than theirs - 113 to 188 (110 on Football Operations alone at Luton).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I quoted their own explanation for higher matchday revenue and league distributions above.

I don't know if this is what they do, but they'd have higher matchday income and staff numbers on their books than us if they did their own catering, merch and retail - rather than outsourcing it all for a minor fee as we do.
 
Thracia said:
Yeah, I quoted their own explanation for higher matchday revenue and league distributions above.

I don't know if this is what they do, but they'd have higher matchday income and staff numbers on their books than us if they did their own catering, merch and retail - rather than outsourcing it all for a minor fee as we do.
Click to expand...

On the staffing side, they employ 110 on Football Ops, 78 on Admin. and a further 177 matchday staff. I didn't include their matchday staff in the comparison previously as we hadn't given any figures for the same in our accounts.

Our 113 staff figure is for "players, managerial, training staff, and admin". I don't think that the Hemmings/Ridsdale Costcutters has managed to bet us down to just 3 admin staff, so Luton obviously employed more people than us in 2021/22 in the players, managerial and training staff - and that's despite us paying for 3 different managers in that year's accounts.
 
Back
Top