Poor Attendances

[satsuma]

Re: Poor Attendances

Bury have a 'family ticket',but I`m not sure it helps going off their crowds!
I went with the family a few seasons back and made the mistake of walking past the building that said 'family tickets',without even a backward glance.When we got in the ground I got talking to another family who had queued for the family tickets and found out that all four got in for £22.We paid seperately at the turnstile and it was £44.An expensive lesson.
I consoled myself with the fact that Bury need the money.Problem is....so do I.🙁
It`s a sad fact that football for a lot of families is too expensive and often poor value for money.Even at our level you don`t get much change out of £50 for a family of four, if your kids are over 7 years old.
Don`t think either that opening up a couple of turnstiles to pay-on-the-gate will significantly improve crowds,it won`t.We tried the same and although the crowds went up slightly,it was so marginal you won`t notice the difference.
At the end of the day, it`s success on the pitch that puts most bums on seats,not all theses iniatives.
Don`t worry,by Easter if you`re still up there they`ll come flooding back, and the embarrassing crowds you and the Dingles are getting at the mo will soon be forgotten....😀

 

[BertNash]

Re: Poor Attendances

Anyone walking around Preston with a Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc they should be shot!

 

[CAMRPNE]

Re: Poor Attendances

I agree that we need to look at the product offer that football delivers.

We tolerate too much the side that comes scrapping for a draw and disrupts the entertainment, we do it when we play away almost as much as teams like QPR do it to us at Deepdale. Football has a stark choice to make whether it wishes to reward gritty hard fought 0-0's or whether it wishes to raise its stakes in the entertainment line and prevent it.

The pre match experience could be improved, we have the side warming up for half an hour, maybe that could be sold as being a good thing to watch instead of being in the pub. I used to like to see the warm up and would get onto games at 1410, but now I stay in the pub until 1435 and get a taxi to Deepdale.

The quality of the refereshment experience could be improved to encourage people to arrive early. I would like to see a supporters bar, complete with simple bar food - A couple of tray pies (so you get a slice therefrom as a portion), and chips mushy peas gravy etc could easily be done. Better beer aswell would be nice (ale for me 🙂 ). Supporters could join (to permit membership club rules) and then be nearer the ground aswell as contributing to the revenue of the football club. Facilities could then be made available to other users, or indeed local people, on other days. If sufficient space is still available in the undersides of the stand then family friendly room could also be provided, with childrens meals etc as appropriate. (Walsall and Manchester United both offer similar things, with a massive price differential between)

Generally the quality of food and drink could be improved, and the service especially, but I think that this has less of an impact on attendance.

If the £2 charge is a problem scrap it and provide alternative incentives to buy in advance (The price of tickets would have to rise to accommodate the lack of extra charge). I can see the problem with the MyPNE idea, people will want individual discounts.

However, as a group of mates going somewhere that offers a buy one get one free deal you would each pay half of the charged for item. Similarly if 4 people go to PNE and get a free match for every 10 tickets purchased in advance then surely they can alternate who gets the tickets, or always contribute £20 each game accordingly?

We do budget on a low attendance, and this leads to us having to sell players from time to time, this is a sad reality. Having budgeted on low crowds there is no reason no to seek to improve the attendances however.

 

[billymac]

Re: Poor Attendances

The first priority should be the retention of all season ticket holders, this enables the pre season transfer activity, and to treat these fans who cough up well in advance of the next season's fair without thought, is gross complacency.
If someone decides not to renew, would it not be a good idea to find out why, as the most cost effective and cheapest marketing, is to retain existing customers. PNE simply do not do this.

The plans submitted by well meaning fans are great, but probably not workable, some of larger grounds (Leicester for example) can easily accomodate more spontaneous fans, more seasts to fill, and when we get the new stand (if not promoted) this may be an option, with areas for pay on the arrivals, with little disruption to ticket holders.

Its all very well trying to sell out the Great Room on match days, but the club will see little increased income from this, as Heathcoates will see most of the profit. The catering needs to be overhauled on the stands, long wait to get served, running out of food regularily, and because its a franchise, PNE do not have to do anything about it, as the revenue for the year has been agreed.

Empty advertising boards are still there pitch side, with it would seem fewer advertisers in front of the pavillion stand (maybe this is due to the development), but the single biggest issue we have, is the ability to retain exisiting customers, and without asking them what they want, like, need etc we can hardly hope to know what will keep/attract supporters.

Over to you Mr Rhodes. (how are the programme sales going!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[White in Exile]

Re: Poor Attendances

We do budget on a low attendance, and this leads to us having to sell players from time to time, this is a sad reality. Having budgeted on low crowds there is no reason no to seek to improve the attendances however.

oops misread your post, my post was rubbih, hence deleted!

 

[dirk pnemouse]

Re: Poor Attendances

Just thinking, is this realy the place to lash out at stay away fans or even try to entice people down to deepdale . Only the people are out there and to reach them you need a more accessable medium like the LEP OR CITIZEN papers . That imho is were we go wrong in the build up to a new season , any fan reading the press is not excited by what hes being told. I realy believe if DEREK SHAW went public with an optimistic message to missing fellow supporters on what were going to do then i think it would make a differance . BE POSITIVE AS FOR THE FOURTH STAND BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.😀

 

[Mike]

Re: Poor Attendances

The thing I hate about the £2 surcharge, is that it penalises fans who live outside Preston who already have extra travellng expences. 😡 Not all of us can just pop in to pick up a ticket during the week. £2 is not a lot of money but it does niggle people.

 

[keasden]

Re: Poor Attendances

Cash turnstiles and a section of unreserved seating. This WILL increase attendances.

I currently sit in an area of the STFS that is almost full with season ticket holders. If I want to persuade a friend to tag along, they can't sit with me, and its a bit stupid saying to someone, come to PNE with me, and sit at the other end of the ground.

Likewise I know my dad would go on more often but the lack of a cash turnstile and the hassle of getting there early to buy a ticket from the ticket office puts him off usually.

 

[ben damph]

Re: Poor Attendances

The thing I hate about the £2 surcharge, is that it penalises fans who live outside Preston who already have extra travellng expences. 😡 Not all of us can just pop in to pick up a ticket during the week. £2 is not a lot of money but it does niggle people.

Have you tried mypne?

I ordered my ticket for the Coventry game on Thursday night and it came through the post on Saturday morning - cost is 30p more than the ticket which pretty much equals the stamp. Certainly a lot easier than coming down from Glasgow to pick it up!

 

[yatesy]

Re: Poor Attendances

The thing I hate about the £2 surcharge, is that it penalises fans who live outside Preston who already have extra travellng expences. 😡 Not all of us can just pop in to pick up a ticket during the week. £2 is not a lot of money but it does niggle people.

Exactly right, I think crowds increased more quickly a few seasons ago when we were doing well and there was no surcharge but now people feel they are being penalised for buying tickets on the day when they should be encouraged to buy a ticket no matter how close to kick-off it is.

The argument by some people that it will result in large queues etc is a poor one, maybe the club should get some proper staff in place of the clowns that they currently have in the ticket office.

 

[Doctor Jimmy]

Re: Poor Attendances

Have you tried mypne?

I ordered my ticket for the Coventry game on Thursday night and it came through the post on Saturday morning - cost is 30p more than the ticket which pretty much equals the stamp. Certainly a lot easier than coming down from Glasgow to pick it up!

Can you though purchace tickets for the Mini- Whites on MYPNE.COM. My son gets in for free (he wont next season) but wouldnt it be a little difficult to do it online.

 

[yatesy]

Re: Poor Attendances

Have you tried mypne?

I ordered my ticket for the Coventry game on Thursday night and it came through the post on Saturday morning - cost is 30p more than the ticket which pretty much equals the stamp. Certainly a lot easier than coming down from Glasgow to pick it up!

Mypne is ok if you know a few days in advance that you will be definately going to the game.

Many fans just like to turn up on the day, get a ticket (at the same price as everyone else), watch the game and go home. Is it really that difficult?

Also, we shouldn't assume that everybody (a) has access to and (b) knows how to use the internet. Many OAP's for example would not want to be spending half a day going to the library to book tickets for PNE😀

 

[websy25]

Re: Poor Attendances

I remember John Beck on the back of the LEP in the early 90's getting more people down to Deepdale (he woke the club up in my opinion) and having themes like flat cap army, the trumpeter, balloons from the 'Netto Man' 🙂 and the massive flag surely made the whole experience more enjoyable and a bit different.

We need something llike that in my opinion to get the atmostphere going well before the game and getting the fans to sing!

This coupled with the attractive football we're playing will make the ones who do go to the games, make them fresh in the memory and will spur them on to bring a mate along next time.

But I do agree that Derek or even Simmo do something publicly to get more people to come down, not just for the footy, we have the National Football Museum remember...it seems to me that better...or should I say 'some' marketing is needed.

Perhaps the club aren't the only ones to blame, I think we should look at ourselves too, as there doesn't seem to be as many organisers within our supporters as I remember in the 90's to do are bit to generate a better atmostphere...it's not just the football that makes a good day out.

We need more supporter groups to get actively involved and help the club.

Come on, jump on the bandwagon! and get this thing rolling!! 😎

 

[Doctor Jimmy]

Re: Poor Attendances

Perhaps if we got promoted to the Prem then everybody would want to come.🙄

 

[White in Exile]

Re: Poor Attendances

The thing I hate about the £2 surcharge, is that it penalises fans who live outside Preston who already have extra travellng expences. 😡 Not all of us can just pop in to pick up a ticket during the week. £2 is not a lot of money but it does niggle people.

no it doesn't!
phone, email, fax, write, use the internet and pick up the ticket on Saturday from the pre booked ticket window.

That way you get the advance booking discount and inly visit the ground on match day!

 

[noelpne]

Re: Poor Attendances

Bury have a 'family ticket',but I`m not sure it helps going off their crowds!
I went with the family a few seasons back and made the mistake of walking past the building that said 'family tickets',without even a backward glance.When we got in the ground I got talking to another family who had queued for the family tickets and found out that all four got in for £22.We paid seperately at the turnstile and it was £44.An expensive lesson.
I consoled myself with the fact that Bury need the money.Problem is....so do I.🙁
It`s a sad fact that football for a lot of families is too expensive and often poor value for money.Even at our level you don`t get much change out of £50 for a family of four, if your kids are over 7 years old.
Don`t think either that opening up a couple of turnstiles to pay-on-the-gate will significantly improve crowds,it won`t.We tried the same and although the crowds went up slightly,it was so marginal you won`t notice the difference.
At the end of the day, it`s success on the pitch that puts most bums on seats,not all theses iniatives.
Don`t worry,by Easter if you`re still up there they`ll come flooding back, and the embarrassing crowds you and the Dingles are getting at the mo will soon be forgotten....😀

So they are queing up to the Prom. to see you lot are they?
Thought not.

 

[CAMRPNE]

Re: Poor Attendances

Saturday 25th November Preston North End v Crystal Palace
Tuesday 28th November Preston North End v Coventry City

Two games coming up at which there will not be too many away fans, at most 1000 from each club, which are back to back and the latter clashes with premiership games (Although none on telly I do not think) So here we have the perfect test bed for inititives to improve attendance.

Total price for two tickets (£22x2) = £44

This is very expensive for two tickets at the full price, so people will be put off attending.

We do need to consider total revenue, so with that in mind I make the following estimates of attendance:

Crystal Palace: 13800 (8000 S/T + 3000 @ 20, 800 @ £22, 1200 @ £12, remainder at average of £6)
Coventry City: 12800 (7500 S/T + 2500 @ 20, 500 @ £22, 1000 @ £12, remainder at average of £6)

The revenues estimated are thus (£60,000+£17,600+£14,400+£4,800) £96,800 for Crystal Palace and (£50,000+£11,000+£12,000+£7,800) £80,800 for Coventry City. So these figures shall roughly be taken as the target figure.

Assume now a discount on the purchase of tickets for both games of £14, such that total pricing runs at £30 for two and remains £20(£22) for each of the individual tickets. Further I assume that the following numbers do not take up the offer but continue to pay full price (either because they only attend one game, or because they fail to precommit):

Crystal Palace: (8000 S/T + 1200 @ £20, 300 @ £22, 600 @ £12, 700 @ £6)
Coventry City: (7500 S/T + 900 @ £20, 300 @ £22, 600 @ £12, 700 @ £6)

Revenues thus work out at (£24,000+£6,600+£7,200+£4,200) £42,000 for Crystal Palace and (£18,000+£6,600+£7,200+£4,200) £36,000 for Coventry, Total Revenue thus being £78,000

Consequently on these estimates we would have to sell ((177,600-78,00)/30) 3,320 full priced tickets in order to make up the shortfall. This sounds reasonable, but is it??

How deep a two-match discount could we reasonably afford to offer???

(I accept this has run out as a long post, but I felt it would be helpful to try and whittle the revenue figures down to a reasonably detailed level in order to extract the potential revenue changes)

 

[noelpne]

Re: Poor Attendances

It is not a premium on the day - there is an advance booking discount of £2

Plus: your suggestion is

A too complicated, i sometimes book 3 tickets for fans with their own mypne numbers, how do they get credited with the discount?

B likely to fall foul of the rule that home and away fans be charged the same for similar accomodation.


Plus, cash turnstiles only really work with a sit-anywhere policy - random allocation of fixed seats at the turnstile will not be acceptable neither would allocating only corner block seats for cash turnstiles

I know its not a premium on the day - the Club know it - but it's not perceived that it isn't by people - therefore it's putting people off.

If you book 3 tickets for fans with their own mypne numbers - (presumably with their own mypne passwords ?) - (a)you are making it complicated for yourself (b) You are privy to their passwords, which is surely not good for security (c) And are you paying for these tickets with more than one card? Rather complicated in the first instance, methinks.


Home and Away prices have been discussed on here - in relation to Sheffield Utd charging their fans less for the visit of PNE last season. It isn't illegal & anyway the Away Fans can book up prior to the game, the same as us.

o.k. Scrap the Cash turnstiles bit if you don't think that those Cash People can fill the gaps between people who have bought tickets. I do. Are you advocating going back to ALL cash, or don't you see a 'mix' as feasable?

 

[Mike]

Re: Poor Attendances

no it doesn't!
phone, email, fax, write, use the internet and pick up the ticket on Saturday from the pre booked ticket window.

That way you get the advance booking discount and inly visit the ground on match day!

I am speaking on bealf of people who dont have internet access or a credit/debit card. Not all of us are living in the 21st century. Also not all people can make a decission several days in advance.

My comments are based on feed back I have recieved.

And the end of the day, what ever system is in place, you cant keep all of the people happy all of the time. 🙄

 

[Bernster]

Re: Poor Attendances

Saturday 25th November Preston North End v Crystal Palace
Tuesday 28th November Preston North End v Coventry City

Two games coming up at which there will not be too many away fans, at most 1000 from each club, which are back to back and the latter clashes with premiership games (Although none on telly I do not think) So here we have the perfect test bed for inititives to improve attendance.

Total price for two tickets (£22x2) = £44

This is very expensive for two tickets at the full price, so people will be put off attending.

We do need to consider total revenue, so with that in mind I make the following estimates of attendance:

Crystal Palace: 13800 (8000 S/T + 3000 @ 20, 800 @ £22, 1200 @ £12, remainder at average of £6)
Coventry City: 12800 (7500 S/T + 2500 @ 20, 500 @ £22, 1000 @ £12, remainder at average of £6)

The revenues estimated are thus (£60,000+£17,600+£14,400+£4,800) £96,800 for Crystal Palace and (£50,000+£11,000+£12,000+£7,800) £80,800 for Coventry City. So these figures shall roughly be taken as the target figure.

Assume now a discount on the purchase of tickets for both games of £14, such that total pricing runs at £30 for two and remains £20(£22) for each of the individual tickets. Further I assume that the following numbers do not take up the offer but continue to pay full price (either because they only attend one game, or because they fail to precommit):

Crystal Palace: (8000 S/T + 1200 @ £20, 300 @ £22, 600 @ £12, 700 @ £6)
Coventry City: (7500 S/T + 900 @ £20, 300 @ £22, 600 @ £12, 700 @ £6)

Revenues thus work out at (£24,000+£6,600+£7,200+£4,200) £42,000 for Crystal Palace and (£18,000+£6,600+£7,200+£4,200) £36,000 for Coventry, Total Revenue thus being £78,000

Consequently on these estimates we would have to sell ((177,600-78,00)/30) 3,320 full priced tickets in order to make up the shortfall. This sounds reasonable, but is it??

How deep a two-match discount could we reasonably afford to offer???

(I accept this has run out as a long post, but I felt it would be helpful to try and whittle the revenue figures down to a reasonably detailed level in order to extract the potential revenue changes)

check the maths i think! you have the first attendance for palace as 13800 but the comparison is only 10800 (similarly with the coventry one)does the discount mean 3000 people dont want to go? i'm confused😕