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Riddler statement.

Riddler statement.

Kenmare_White said:
Agreed. Wasn’t having a go Paddy, was just explaining from my side.
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Aye thats why i went away and read about it to get a better understanding.

As Billy says football is entirely unique in the way it deals with such things which makes it tricky to employ usual accounting statements
 
europne said:
these days it’s not a major part of a clubs income either, even less so in the Premier league.
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Alongside TV revenue gate receipts are Preston North End's single most highest income generator.

Preston North End would not exist without its supporters. What part of that are you failing to understand?

I am not critical of everything Mr. Hemmings does. However, unlike you I don't believe he is perfect either.

For the third time you have remarked about my happiness.

Why don't you just stick to the debate instead of being a patronising sod?
 
paddysr said:
Aye thats why i went away and read about it to get a better understanding.

As Billy says football is entirely unique in the way it deals with such things which makes it tricky to employ usual accounting statements
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We actually audit Man Utd, so I’ve had a bit of experience dealing with it. Very interesting stuff if that’s what floats your boat!
 
We are going round in circles , but let me summarise my position

1. There are lots of things about TH running of the club I don’t agree with.
2. If I had his money and owned the club , I would do things differently.
3. I don’t so I can’t.
4. I despair probably more than most on here because I have spent nearly 50 years of my life travelling round the country watching them and realise I will, like a couple of my pals, probably die without seeing us play in the top league. It won’t stop me supporting though.
5. TH now funds the club to the tune of £5m to £10m a year. Real cash going in every month. That is after banking player sales money from Hugill, Robinson etc. He will offset between £1m and £2m against his tax as a result of that. He will have made a few quid out of Ingol as well due to fans efforts but will point to the £80m or whatever he has already funded us to the tune of.
6. If TH goes we need to find another benefactor to pump in that £5m to £10m per season until / unless we get to the premier league. If we want more investment, we need to find a new owner who will put more than this in per annum.
7. People say we should adopt the Brentford model. We already do. We run an operating loss and the balance is part funded by player sales and part by benefactor contributions. You can’t run a Brentford model without a benefactor.
8. I’d prefer the Brenftford owners Version of the model than THs because he puts more money in and he buys ( and sells) strikers. Strikers make the difference. But it’s still the same Financial model for running a football club. And I can’t do anything about it.
9. “Hemmings out “ without someone prepared to fund the operating loss , no matter how badly you think TH may spend his money, means the club goes backwards in a big way and very quickly. Player sales will be required imminently , and they will need to be replaced by players on much lower wages to balance the books. No bank will lend the money , and I wouldn’t want them to.
10. I get the idea that TH can easily afford more. He might even spend proportionately less of his net worth on the club than some of us. That’s frustrating but irrelevant. Unless you prefer the idea of a less rich owner who puts in less per year as it seems fairer. That’s all very socialist , but it leads to everyone being worse off. (Blackpool found one of them BTW ).
11. I am firmly of the opinion there is no one out there who would wish to fund a club that has been 60 years outside the top flight to the tune of £10m per annum. What TH may or may not want for the club is irrelevant. It’s funding the losses that matter.
12. I can back that up with a similar club, Bolton, who could not find a new decent benefactor , even though the club was going for £1. And their operating losses were not much different to what ours now are. If TH goes without replacement , within 6 months our financial position will be worse than Bolton’s was and we will not be a going concern.
13 If we do find someone I think it would have to be a local man and fan made (very ) good. Like the Brentford , Bristol City or Boro owners. That person would already have made himself known. I look frequently at sponsors, box owners etc etc to see if there is an unknown billionaire with an interest in PNE . There is only one and he already owns the club.
14. So with me , it’s very firmly “ better the devil you know”.

PS . That does not preclude constructive criticism of the way the club is run. Just idiotic arguments about Hemmings making a profit out of it, or that Brentford are achieving what they are achieving without someone bunging at least as much cash in pa as TH does.
 
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chorleythehord said:
We are going round in circles , but let me summarise my position

1. There are lots of things about TH running of the club I don’t agree with.
2. If I had his money and owned the club , I would do things differently.
3. I don’t so I can’t.
4. I despair probably more than most on here because I have spent nearly 50 years of my life travelling round the country watching them and realise I will, like a couple of my pals, probably die without seeing us play in the top league. It won’t stop me supporting though.
5. TH now funds the club to the tune of £5m to £10m a year. Real cash going in every month. That is after banking player sales money from Hugill, Robinson etc. He will offset between £1m and £2m against his tax as a result of that. He will have made a few quid out of Ingol as well due to fans efforts but will point to the £80m or whatever he has already funded us to the tune of.
6. If TH goes we need to find another benefactor to pump in that £5m to £10m per season until / unless we get to the premier league. If we want more investment, we need to find a new owner who will put more than this in per annum.
7. People say we should adopt the Brentford model. We already do. We run an operating loss and the balance is part funded by player sales and part by benefactor contributions. You can’t run a Brentford model without a benefactor.
8. I’d prefer the Brenftford owners Version of the model than THs because he puts more money in and he buys ( and sells) strikers. Strikers make the difference. But it’s still the same Financial model for running a football club. And I can’t do anything about it.
9. “Hemmings out “ without someone prepared to fund the operating loss , no matter how badly you think TH may spend his money, means the club goes backwards in a big way and very quickly. Player sales will be required imminently , and they will need to be replaced by players on much lower wages to balance the books. No bank will lend the money , and I wouldn’t want them to.
10. I get the idea that TH can easily afford more. He might even spend proportionately less of his net worth on the club than some of us. That’s frustrating but irrelevant. Unless you prefer the idea of a less rich owner who puts in less per year as it seems fairer. That’s all very socialist , but it leads to everyone being worse off. (Blackpool found one of them BTW ).
11. I am firmly of the opinion there is no one out there who would wish to fund a club that has been 60 years outside the top flight to the tune of £10m per annum. What TH may or may not want for the club is irrelevant. It’s funding the losses that matter.
12. I can back that up with a similar club, Bolton, who could not find a new decent benefactor , even though the club was going for £1. And their operating losses were not much different to what ours now are. If TH goes without replacement , within 6 months our financial position will be worse than Bolton’s was and we will not be a going concern.
13 If we do find someone I think it would have to be a local man and fan made (very ) good. Like the Brentford , Bristol City or Boro owners. That person would already have made himself known. I look frequently at sponsors, box owners etc etc to see if there is an unknown billionaire with an interest in PNE . There is only one and he already owns the club.
14. So with me , it’s very firmly “ better the devil you know”.
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I think you’ve over complicated things...I just want him to build a training ground as promised and communicate with fans more than once every five years.
 
Yoowell said:
I think you’ve over complicated things...I just want him to build a training ground as promised and communicate with fans more than once every five years.
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[/QUOTE="paddysr, post: 3728875, member: 13857"]
And buy us a competent striker
[/QUOTE]

so do I. Point no.1.

the fact that we don’t , doesn’t justify getting rid of the guy putting £5m to £10m pa in though.

Thats my point.
 
Thracia said:
Mate.

Put. The. Club. Up. For. Sale.

Price calculated using the same formula as 10 years ago (5p in the £).

Then let's see if "there is nobody out there who wants to buy the club".
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Did the original AIM prospectus guarantee returns? Or was everyone’s capital always at risk?
 
Yes, it’s possible there cou
Doc Brown said:
When pushing for a change of ownership, being reminded of these cautionary tales is important. That they may be inconvenient or irritating doesn’t make the comparisons any less valid.

In recent years in the football league, how many club takeovers, particularly of northern small/medium sized clubs like PNE, left said club better off in the long run?

I can think of many disasters - of clubs who have fallen foul of the predatory, opportunist businessman or the bogus consortium - than clubs that have seriously benefited. At least in recent years.

We won’t know how PNE will fair post Hemmings until the day it actually happens, but plenty of examples from the football league show we’d more likely be worse off, possibly disastrously so, than any better.

I’m not particularly pro or anti Hemmings. But I am very much pro PNE. I want the club to survive and at a decent level, and I think Hemmings’ ownership gives us that assurance.

I’m also, I think, a realist. I’d love a benign billionaire to buy TH out and bank roll us into the Premier League, but the football league keeps throwing us warning signs that such owners seldom materialise.

IMO, ousting Hemmings and rolling the dice on God knows who else, is very unlikely to pay off, and much more likely to backfire drastically - particularly in the current economic climate.

I understand those who have got frustrated and think we might land the winning lottery ticket by replacing TH, but I think we’ve got to be risk averse in these unprecedented times.

PNE will without doubt lean largely on our owner for support in the coming months and TH provides a very reliable crutch.
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Very good post.
 
JK said:
Alongside TV revenue gate receipts are Preston North End's single most highest income generator.

Preston North End would not exist without its supporters. What part of that are you failing to understand?

I am not critical of everything Mr. Hemmings does. However, unlike you I don't believe he is perfect either.

For the third time you have remarked about my happiness.

Why don't you just stick to the debate instead of being a patronising sod?
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JK the only caveat to that is Preston North End is surviving without it's supporters right now, that's why I can't be over critical of Hemmings at present, we simply can't survive without him. That's the truth.
 
Yoowell said:
Or tell us why he can’t.....which would be better than complete silence which makes it seem like we don’t feckin matter.
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As much as it would be nice to hear more from the horse's mouth ( (D) ), I think Riddler, as adviser to the owner, has gone some way to telling us why.
 
chorleythehord said:
TH now funds the club to the tune of £5m to £10m a year. Real cash going in every month. That is after banking player sales money from Hugill, Robinson etc.
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Are you saying the Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham money is not sat in a lockbox waiting to be spent on new players? It's used to finance the running of the club?
 
This is ridiculous. Both sides are making valid points but equally, both sides are too stubborn to acknowledge the valid points of the opposition. It’s like the most boring tennis match ever with both players just hitting forehand ground strokes down the middle of the court ad infinitum.
 
europne said:
A lifetime financial commitment? It’s all our choices if we want to pay the money to follow our team, no one forces us to do this.

Anyone buying shares does so knowing the risk, are you in some sort of fantasy world JK?
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A lifetime financial commitment? It’s Hemmings choice that he now has to pay the money that it costs to run a team, no one forced him to buy PNE. Except his vision of a quick cheap purchase.

Anyone buying shares, as Hemmings did, does so knowing the risk, are you in some sort of fantasy world Europne?
 
pnenycx said:
Are you saying the Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham money is not sat in a lockbox waiting to be spent on new players? It's used to finance the running of the club?
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Yes.
last accounts show
income- tickets, commercial, tv etc - ( exc transfers) £12m
wages £19m
other costs £3m

loss before transfers in or out is £10m in one year

that £10m loss is part offset by net transfer profit and part by funding from the owner.

Our transfer kitty is entirely Dependant on how much our benefactor wants to put in, it’s not a reinvestment of transfer profits.
 
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