Riddler statement.

[chorleythehord]

Both your (presumably totally random) examples' most recent accounts contain the following (common, boilerplate, copy/paste) auditor text:

"In preparing the financial statements, the directors are responsible for assessing the company's ability to continue as a going concern, disclosing, as applicable, matters related to going concern and using the going concern basis of accounting unless the directors either intend to liquidate the company or to cease operations, or have no realistic alternative but to do so".

The Millwall directors provide the following elucidation in their notes (PDF):

"The directors continually monitor the financial position of the Company, taking into account the latest cash flow forecasts and the ability of the Company to generate cash. The directors have prepared the financial statements on a going concern basis having had regard to cash flow projections for a period of not less than twelve months from the date of signing these accounts which includes funding from the immediate parent company, financed by the ultimate parent company. The directors have also considered the impact of player trading, which is an integral part of the Company's activities, and the cash flows associated with this activity.

"While there will always remain some inherent uncertainty the directors remain confident that they will be able to manage the company's finances and operations so as to achieve the forecasted cash flows and, as a result, that it is appropriate to draw up the financial statements on a going concern basis.

"The financial statements do not include any adjustments that would result if the going concern basis of preparation were to become no longer appropriate."

Whereas the Rotherham directors offer the following in their notes (PDF):

"The directors have a reasonable expectation that the company has adequate resources to continue for the foreseeable future and have received a letter of support from ASD Lighting plc confirming financial support for a period of at least 12 months from the date of approval of these financial statements. Thus the directors continue to adopt the going concern basis of accounting in preparing the financial statements".

Im a director of a Company and every company director I understand is required to make a statement in the accounts that they are a going concern and why they think that is true.

The auditor assesses that. If he thinks there is something fundamental about it, over and above how businesses run generally, he puts it in the auditor report. That is what you git at Pne, and probably most clubs that are totally reliant on their benefactor to keep going.

Not at Rotherham and Millwall who were not chosen at random, but the first 2 that came to my head without an obvious benefactor.

 

[paddysr]

Pumping millions in to a new stadium has no immediate effect on profit and loss. that is an asset purchase.
Brentford run at an operating loss of about £20m a year funded by the owner. He tries to offset this with player sales and profits. I know a brentford fan and he tells me the owner gets the same sort of stick our owner gets from the financially uninformed fans. Accused of back pocketing millions of pounds and using tax losses to somehow miraculously get his money back. That’s despite him pumping £130m in the short time he has owned his boyhood club ( and That’s with the ground a long way from complete ).

In theory anything is possible. Who would have thought going on the cheap and getting a bunch of cheap loan players like blackpool did. would get you up. But they did. The lack of profitable clubs in the championship tells you otherwise though.

I keep coming in here looking like a TH lacky. I’m far from happy about many aspects about the way the club is run. There is nothing wrong with criticising that. It’s just the financially clueless who irritate me. Thinking the answer is “Hemmings out”. And suddenly our new owner will arise , stand the £10m a year loss and pump more in besides to break the wage and transfer structure. It’s just not the real world that I live in. Better the devil you know.

one day though, perhaps sooner than we think , he will not be here. You , Paddy, Jack Daniels, Thracia and the rest will get your wish then. Id be delighted to be proved wrong, and I will support the club no matter what. But I strongly suspect we will not get the investment from any new owner that we get from TH.

Your names have been noted.

2018/19- £20m profit
2017/18- £3.2m loss
2016/17- £1m loss

This is a club that has had an 12.5k capacity

They have pumped millions into their B team and squad development and are sat on saleable assets of God knows how much.

The stadium is finished but at the time it wasn't. Total cost will be £71m and the last accounts stated £13.1m to the developer. It doesn't show as an asset only Griffin Park at £17.1m as this is the saleable value to the developer.

The only reason they reported a loss the season before was due to the transfer of land at Lionel Road.

The accounts are online if you would like to read.

You're another one that just makes things up

 

[bowlandwhites]

And 99.9% of statistics are made up.

These are tough times for many and the CITY you refer to is under new covid restrictions.

That area of Preston has been an issue since Tithbarn Collapsed. As far as I am aware the plans are still going ahead for the old market development.

Whilst I dont want another thread to go all political as we have enough them, however you could very much say the same about Burnley.

A town whose football club who have now established themselves as a Premier League football club.

They were very lucky had they not gone up the 1st time they would of been in receivership & it took the playoffs.
It's easy to pick a club success out of 92 clubs .

 

[JK]

They were very lucky had they not gone up the 1st time they would of been in receivership & it took the playoffs.
It's easy to pick a club success out of 92 clubs .

I didn't have enough time to list all the other "lucky" clubs to have played top flight football since our last game at that level.

 

[Thracia]

Im a director of a Company and every company director I understand is required to make a statement in the accounts that they are a going concern and why they think that is true.

The auditor assesses that. If he thinks there is something fundamental about it, over and above how businesses run generally, he puts it in the auditor report. That is what you git at Pne, and probably most clubs that are totally reliant on their benefactor to keep going.

Not at Rotherham and Millwall who were not chosen at random, but the first 2 that came to my head without an obvious benefactor.

Yep - they were not chosen by you at random. Thanks for confirming.

And just to be clear - none of these audited accounts (PNE, Millwall, Rotherham) certify that any of these football clubs should be considered to be a going concern beyond the statutory 12 months covered by the accounts.

None of them.

So your own chosen examples (supposed to disprove the fact that football clubs are only ever a going concern at the whim of their owners) actually demonstrated nothing of the kind.

 

[chorleythehord]

2018/19- £20m profit
2017/18- £3.2m loss
2016/17- £1m loss

This is a club that has had an 12.5k capacity

They have pumped millions into their B team and squad development and are sat on saleable assets of God knows how much.

The stadium is finished but at the time it wasn't. Total cost will be £71m and the last accounts stated £13.1m to the developer. It doesn't show as an asset only Griffin Park at £17.1m as this is the saleable value to the developer.

The only reason they reported a loss the season before was due to the transfer of land at Lionel Road.

The accounts are online if you would like to read.

You're another one that just makes things up

Ive been in business 25 years so I’m perfectly capable of accessing companies house and reading accounts thank you very much

the operating loss before playing trading and non football activities at first glance shows:

2016 £24m loss
2017 £14m Loss
2018£18m Loss
2019 £20m loss

much of those losses have been Offset by player Profit sales , and in 2019 offset by the sale of griffin park to another company.
Money Benham has pumped in by way of loans is shown as £68m. Then there are share issues to the total of £39m. That’s up to June 2019. Add on to that whatever he has spunked on the new ground in the current year.

Brentford are very fortunate that they have a most generous benefactor. They don’t really have a fantastic business model, that’s the great myth of this message board, but they have been more successful in buying , then selling, strikers at huge profits. But it’s still not stopped the need for their benefactor to pump the millions in. And he still starts next season in the same league as us.

 

[Thracia]

Brentford are very fortunate that they have a most generous benefactor. They don’t really have a fantastic business model, that’s the great myth of this message board, but they have been more successful in buying , then selling, strikers at huge profits. But it’s still not stopped the need for their benefactor to pump the millions in. And he still starts next season in the same league as us.

And what is wrong with that model, compared to the model we have?

Bearing in mind the business the football club is in is the sports and entertainment business.

 

[paddysr]

Ive been in business 25 years so I’m perfectly capable of accessing companies house and reading accounts thank you very much

the operating loss before playing trading and non football activities was

2016 £24m loss
2017 £14m Loss
2018£18m Loss
2019 £20m loss

much of those losses have been Offset by player Profit sales , and in 2019 offset by the sale of griffin park to another company.
Money Benham has pumped in by way of loans is shown as £68m. Then there are share issues to the total of £39m. That’s up to June 2019. Add on to that whatever he has spunked on the new ground in the current year.

Brentford are very fortunate that they have a most generous benefactor. They don’t really have a fantastic business model, that’s the great myth of this message board, but they have been more successful in buying , then selling, strikers at huge profits. But it’s still not stopped the need for their benefactor to pump the millions in. And he still starts next season in the same league as us.

Player trading is one of the most important revenue deciders in football. To completely ignore that is utterly ridiculous.

Thats like running a book shop and ignoring the revenue generated by the sale and purchase of books.

But you've been in business 25 years so you would know this

 

[LancasterRed]

Even if Brentford are running at a loss now, they have the assets and capability to reinvest at a minimal loss/profit such that the losses are mitigated over time.

That's why they're so well-run, they're like a real life version of Football Manager with their Youth Conveyer Belt strategy.

(now all they need are a few Old Firm friendlies...)

 

[chorleythehord]

And what is wrong with that model, compared to the model we have?

Bearing in mind the business the football club is in is the sports and entertainment business.

Nothing wrong with it if you have a benefactor prepared to fund it. Bear in mind It seems to cost their owner a lot more than it costs Ours. He has pumped more in than TH has in a shorter period of time.

It’s the delusion that it is some self financing way to guarantee promotion that irritates me. One it is not self financing and two they did not achieve promotion.

 

[john2321]

You think I have strange notion
When posters continually complain about TH not putting enough money into a club that's losing millions every year.
I am sure his business interests must have taken a massive hit this year .
It's not just lack of investment in players. It's every decision that's made these days by the club they can't do right for doing wrong anymore & I think it's spoiling the enjoyment for many supporters especially when you no some of the moaning is from fans that don't attend any more.
We are a championship team in the top half of the table & punching above our weight some need to get real with expectations.
Our budget will probebly exceed 20 million this coming season that to me is a lot of bloody money considering the crowds we get & compared to sizes of other clubs in the championship.

When will you TH fans realise Mr Hemmings owns PNE lock, stock and barrel. It’s him that relies on us as fans to support his business. He has to make it attractive so we will turn up week after week. Trouble with him is just like British Leyland thinking an Austin Allegro will suffice and no need for better quality when all their competitors are moving on.

 

[chorleythehord]

Player trading is one of the most important revenue deciders in football. To completely ignore that is utterly ridiculous.

Thats like running a book shop and ignoring the revenue generated by the sale and purchase of books.

But you've been in business 25 years so you would know this

Of course it is. Now you are gradually beginning to get it ( although your bookshop is a poor analogy- the primary purpose of a bookshop is to sell books. A football clubs primary activity is not selling players). .

Player sale profits can be used to at least partially offset operating losses.In our case £10m a season. In Brentford’s case it seems £20m. it’s obviously a risky model as player values can go down, run contacts out etc , but if you have The benefactor as a back stop , you can risk it. That is what both Preston and Brentford do. Without a benefactor you cannot do it. You would need a bank to give you a loan and there is no chance of that.

The fact is Preston and Brentford run very similar business models. Both have benefactors pumping millions in. ( currently Benham has funded Brentford far greater pa than Hemmings). Both try to mitigate the Operating losses by selling players. Both would be goosed without their benefactor , and would struggle to replace him. Both have failed to ever get promotion to the Premier League. Both have fans who think their benefactor is somehow siphoning the profits away.

 

[bowlandwhites]

I didn't have enough time to list all the other "lucky" clubs to have played top flight football since our last game at that level.

We missed our chance against WHU that should have been our time.
It will come again I do believe .
it looks easy from the outside as a fan when it's not our money & becase we don't have any real decisions to make except should we go to the match or not or should we support Liverpool .
Like buying a striker you giving him a 3 year contract hope he is a success & he turns out a dud you can't get him off the books .
Nugent most fans thought what a great signing but now it trevs fault . Sinclair will end up a TH signing next he can't win.
Who would buy a football club not me even if I had TH money.

 

[Kenmare_White]

Player trading is one of the most important revenue deciders in football. To completely ignore that is utterly ridiculous.

Thats like running a book shop and ignoring the revenue generated by the sale and purchase of books.

But you've been in business 25 years so you would know this

As an accountant myself, football is completely different to the book industry that you refer to.

Revenue is made up of the normal day to day operations of a company e.g a bookshop selling books. The books are inventory.

One off “exceptional” sales that are not part of daily operations are considered elsewhere e.g selling a football player’s registration. Footballers are not inventory.

 

[europne]

When will you TH fans realise Mr Hemmings owns PNE lock, stock and barrel. It’s him that relies on us as fans to support his business. He has to make it attractive so we will turn up week after week. Trouble with him is just like British Leyland thinking an Austin Allegro will suffice and no need for better quality when all their competitors are moving on.

Relies on us fans to support his business?

 

[JK]

We missed our chance against WHU that should have been our time.
It will come again I do believe .
it looks easy from the outside as a fan when it's not our money & becase we don't have any real decisions to make except should we go to the match or not or should we support Liverpool .
Like buying a striker you giving him a 3 year contract hope he is a success & he turns out a dud you can't get him off the books .
Nudgent most fans thought what a great signing but now it trevs fault . Sinclair will end up a TH signing next he can't win.
Who would buy a football club not me even if I had TH money.

If I had Trevor Hemmings wealth I would buy Preston North End.. but sadly I don't.

Trevor Hemmings is not just a weatlhy man, he is a BILLIONAIRE.

David Nugent was signed on the say so of Trevor Hemmings. He was given a two year contract. Whilst many fans welcomed David back it would only have been a great signing had it happened five years ago.

We all hoped that it would have worked out but the failure to sanction a further striker was a absymal decision.

Nugent will end up getting paid off but hopefully will be remembered for what he did first time around.

The owner sanctioned the signing of Doyle on a three year contract...

I dont agree with owners of football clubs signing anyone and believe they should allow the people they employ to do so.

 

[Thracia]

The fact is Preston and Brentford run very similar business models.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

 

[LancasterRed]

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I can't believe what I've just seen!

 

[europne]

If I had Trevor Hemmings wealth I would buy Preston North End.. but sadly I don't.

Trevor Hemmings is not just a weatlhy man, he is a BILLIONAIRE.

David Nugent was signed on the say so of Trevor Hemmings. He was given a two year contract. Whilst many fans welcomed David back it would only have been a great signing had it happened five years ago.

We all hoped that it would have worked out but the failure to sanction a further striker was a absymal decision.

Nugent will end up getting paid off but hopefully will be remembered for what he did first time around.

The owner sanctioned the signing of Doyle on a three year contract...

I dont agree with owners of football clubs signing anyone and believe they should allow the people they employ to do so.

Well buy a bit of land and build a few houses, easy peasy, then do a few more, and before you know it after about 50 years you might also be a billionaire......
It’s simple really, just like running a footy club, which some of you also know everything about......

Just ask Paddy for some financial advice , he’s a proper know all, surprised he’s not a billionaire also.

But hurry up about it cos TH isn’t getting any younger.

 

[europne]

Of course it is. Now you are gradually beginning to get it ( although your bookshop is a poor analogy- the primary purpose of a bookshop is to sell books. A football clubs primary activity is not selling players). .

Player sale profits can be used to at least partially offset operating losses.In our case £10m a season. In Brentford’s case it seems £20m. it’s obviously a risky model as player values can go down, run contacts out etc , but if you have The benefactor as a back stop , you can risk it. That is what both Preston and Brentford do. Without a benefactor you cannot do it. You would need a bank to give you a loan and there is no chance of that.

The fact is Preston and Brentford run very similar business models. Both have benefactors pumping millions in. ( currently Benham has funded Brentford far greater pa than Hemmings). Both try to mitigate the Operating losses by selling players. Both would be goosed without their benefactor , and would struggle to replace him. Both have failed to ever get promotion to the Premier League. Both have fans who think their benefactor is somehow siphoning the profits away.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I can't believe what I've just seen!

Best if you read the whole paragraph chaps before you get your girly giggles.....