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So how should Preston remember the 96 today

So how should Preston remember the 96 today

like others have said, on the anniversary of the event there should be a minutes silence where fans can pay their respects to those who died, all that has happened at the moment is a report has been released, are we supposed to have a minutes silence every time there is a further update on this issue? if they announce they will reopen the case to change the cause of death are we going to have another thread like this?
 
PNEESSEX said:
The report is crystal clear: the fault does not lie with the Liverpool fans. Attempting to perpetuate the myth that it was otherwise is ridiculous.
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So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
 
Liverpool fans have to take some of the blame no matter what the report said, the fact many of them turned up without tickets in the first place is a fault, if the Liverpool fans without tickets had not shown up the crush would never have happened.

Blaming it all on the police is as stupid as blaming it all on the Liverpool fans, everyone was at fault that day.
 
pnesaint said:
So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
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No one has said any of the above, go and read the report. They are saying there was no "excessive" amount of drunks, no "excessive" amount of people turning up without tickets. How you measure that I don't know to be honest, but what is evident from the release of the documentation, and the report is that the above could have been managed, as it had been and was being managed all over the country. As for them arriving late- delays on Motorway and police escorts were to blame for the majority of that. again, all in the report and documentation.

It really is an interesting, all be it , very sad read. Might go some way to dispelling some of your pre conceptions? It certainly did mine.

Heysel was a disgusting act of hooliganism, don't think anyone would deny that. Or if they do they need their heads testing.
 
Guinness said:
Liverpool fans have to take some of the blame no matter what the report said, the fact many of them turned up without tickets in the first place is a fault, if the Liverpool fans without tickets had not shown up the crush would never have happened.

Blaming it all on the police is as stupid as blaming it all on the Liverpool fans, everyone was at fault that day.
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I also held the same view, until I read the report.

There's no evidence to show that more liverpool fans without tickets turned up than the year before, equally I suppose it could be argued that there is also no evidence to support that they didn't.

All the report deals with is facts, and key differences/points to be taken on board from the 87 and 88 games held at H'boro, what changed in the policing strategy and the prevention of possibly life saving treatement to the dying.
 
Bint said:
No one has said any of the above, go and read the report. They are saying there was no "excessive" amount of drunks, no "excessive" amount of people turning up without tickets. How you measure that I don't know to be honest, but what is evident from the release of the documentation, and the report is that the above could have been managed, as it had been and was being managed all over the country. As for them arriving late- delays on Motorway and police escorts were to blame for the majority of that. again, all in the report and documentation.

It really is an interesting, all be it , very sad read. Might go some way to dispelling some of your pre conceptions? It certainly did mine.

Heysel was a disgusting act of hooliganism, don't think anyone would deny that. Or if they do they need their heads testing.
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Excessive is subjective -what is excessive to one person is not to another. A totally meaningless phrase.
 
pnesaint said:
So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
Click to expand...

I'm personally not blaming the police and authorities 100% for what happened. There were many honest mistakes and out and out poor decisions on that day that created a situation that led to tragedy.

However, I blame them for the cover up. There is no honest mistake in a cover up.
 
pnesaint said:
So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
Click to expand...

Can you tell me how your list is any different from any other clubs supporters? Any club would have the same. Any club in the FA cup semi final would take the same numbers. An accident on the motorway was the reason for late arrivals tc etc etc.

The fact is that the police knew what to expect. It was their job to control the situation. Their failings caused the crush, NOT anything the supporters did. It's really not difficult.
 
Glen_Pnefc said:
For all those who naively think 'it has nothing to do with us' it has equally as much to do with us as it does all these clubs that have shown there support, we are all fellow football fans.
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I dont think that Liverpool fans would care , if the roles were reversed !!
 
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pnesaint said:
So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
Click to expand...

I make no mention of Heysel. Having read the report, and quoted it earlier on in the thread, it is absolutely clear that the findings are that the fans were not to blame. If you have evidence that contradicts the findings which were based upon exhaustive analysis of the evidence, then I suggest you contact the author and have your input. To be honest, I know which conclusions I'd be happier with.....those based upon proper evidence.
 
PNEESSEX said:
I make no mention of Heysel. Having read the report, and quoted it earlier on in the thread, it is absolutely clear that the findings are that the fans were not to blame. If you have evidence that contradicts the findings which were based upon exhaustive analysis of the evidence, then I suggest you contact the author and have your input. To be honest, I know which conclusions I'd be happier with.....those based upon proper evidence.
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It's staggering to read some people's ignorance isn't it!
 
Nobber said:
Can you tell me how your list is any different from any other clubs supporters? Any club would have the same. Any club in the FA cup semi final would take the same numbers. An accident on the motorway was the reason for late arrivals tc etc etc.

The fact is that the police knew what to expect. It was their job to control the situation. Their failings caused the crush, NOT anything the supporters did. It's really not difficult.
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It isn't.

My point is that the behaviour of some fans contributed to the catastrophe. Their actions, unknowingly and unwittingly, contibuted to it along with the incompenent efforts of the police. At the end of the day it was a terrible accident caused by chance and a huge number of interlocking and inter-related events. Nobody set out to kill 96 people. Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.

If you choose to believe that 100% of Liverpool fans that day were whiter than white then that's up to you.
 
Fences and awful police decisions caused it. Simple as that.
20,000 ticketless fans, pissed up, should have been able to turn up late and not 1 person to die.
The people shouting the loudest on this don't remember fences.

Look at the images of the kids being crushed to death at the front at Hillsborough, killed by the fence, a crush caused by awful police decisions and then fatal police hesitation, and then continue to talk bollocks, just to prove how hollow your heads are.
 
pnesaint said:
So Liverpool fans didn't go to the pub before the game?
So they were all stone cold sober?
So they all had tickets and went to their allotted entrance gate?
So they formed a neat orderly queue while awaiting admission?
So they all arrived on time, none were late?

You'll be telling me next that they didn't charge around Heysel throwing bricks at families.
Click to expand...

I'm fucking embarrassed for you.
 
PNERULEOK said:
Fences and awful police decisions caused it. Simple as that.
20,000 ticketless fans, pissed up, should have been able to turn up late and not 1 person to die.
The people shouting the loudest on this don't remember fences.

Look at the images of the kids being crushed to death at the front at Hillsborough, killed by the fence, a crush caused by awful police decisions and then fatal police hesitation, and then continue to talk bollocks, just to prove how hollow your heads are.
Click to expand...

And that's the point of the report to be honest. Lots of contributing factors but the failure to deal with any of them is want essentially condemned 96 people to death
 
pnesaint said:
It isn't.

My point is that the behaviour of some fans contributed to the catastrophe. Their actions, unknowingly and unwittingly, contibuted to it along with the incompenent efforts of the police. At the end of the day it was a terrible accident caused by chance and a huge number of interlocking and inter-related events. Nobody set out to kill 96 people. Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.

If you choose to believe that 100% of Liverpool fans that day were whiter than white then that's up to you.
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It's not a case of whiter than white. The police, the stadium owners and the FA knew what to expect and they failed. It really is that simple.
 
edgy1966 said:
But one major one
The opening of gate C
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Well not shutting off the tunnel really. They worked out there weren't that many over capacity in there (though it could be argued that the capacity was to high in the first place) but if those who came in through gate C had been directing to the side pens there may not have been an issue.
 
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