Standards?

[Benito]

Well ill ask you ' do you honestly think we would have let this snow ball the way it has before nipping it in the bud mate , our differences apart i think not .

To be honest, I think the mods are kind of restricted in what they can do.

I don't think anyone needs banning, at least not permanently, just everyone needs to calm down and let this thread and all related disagreements stop.

The one thing I don't agree with is the way bullying (or targeting specific posters for abuse) hasn't been clamped down on. Seeing as one a number of occasions one or two on this thread were clearly ganging up on another poster, more should be done to let the instigator of any conflict know what they're doing isn't right and shouldn't be tolerated. That goes for for when this has occurred with normal posters and even moderators being the guilty party. The most unfortunate thing is that in the worst example of this, the 'victim' seems to have stopped posting.

 

[Liberation]

Watching a forum I used to love DIE

It isn't dying, it's being murdered.

Bit dramatic fellas.... It's a bloody tiff ( an engineered one at that ) that is pretty much limited ( now anyway) to one thread. The rest of the forum seems to be ticking over quite nicely without much disruption.

 

[jakehake]

Indeed, it is a tough call - which is the lesser of the two evils?

The other angle is that, if some of the major protagonists were sent to the naughty step for a while, other people might feel free to post without feeling that they are going to receive abuse or become drawn into tiresome debates. It is annoying when you just want to read match reports or PNE news, but have to wage through pages of vendetta-driven debate.

Many people may only read the forum or may not post very often, but their views are rarely heard. Instead, they will drift away and find other things to do - a death by a thousand cuts.

I am not trying to criticise the mods, because I understand fully how difficult running a forum and balancing the needs of different personalities can be. I don't envy you in the slightest! Something needs to happen, though, because this cannot be allowed to continue. 🙂

That's why there are the sub-forums though so that the "Football chat" should remain where it is and on topic where possible. The other forums are named accordingly so it's normally going to contain a variety of other stuff, including sadly the less pleasant parts of the conversations/spats that go on. I get your point though, as previous though, apart from banning a massive swathe of users it's seemingly unworkable. The current 'noise' is a set of users who now routinely disregard censure, then when they are censured they get a few of their mates to start complaining about how they are picked on and it snowballs again. As these cliques are from generally fairly long standing posters you then end up with a state where you wipe half the posting population, and frankly, that isn't what anyone wants. Nor would the admin probably thank us for decimating their user base. But it's a fairly tough place especially at present. It hasn't worked for whatever reason (moderating mods is definitely an issue as it's political more than anything, no excuses, but that's the way it is)

 

[Benito]

Bit dramatic fellas.... It's a bloody tiff ( an engineered one at that ) that is pretty much limited ( now anyway) to one thread. The rest of the forum seems to be ticking over quite nicely without much disruption.

Exactly. It's not like the majority of the forum even posts on threads like this, I don't know if many read it either. Of couse this needs to stop because it's pathetic, but it's hardly 'killing the forum'.

 

[dirk pnemouse]

To be honest, I think the mods are kind of restricted in what they can do.

I don't think anyone needs banning, at least not permanently, just everyone needs to calm down and let this thread and all related disagreements stop.

The one thing I don't agree with is the way bullying (or targeting specific posters for abuse) hasn't been clamped down on. Seeing as one a number of occasions one or two on this thread were clearly ganging up on another poster, more should be done to let the instigator of any conflict know what they're doing isn't right and shouldn't be tolerated. That goes for for when this has occurred with normal posters and even moderators being the guilty party. The most unfortunate thing is that in the worst example of this, the 'victim' seems to have stopped posting.

The only way to deal with this is strict and completely impartial , if we are going to claim there is only 1 victim in this or 1 main protagonist we have already defeated ourselves . You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs and its time to crack a few , i like most of the guys involved but there destroying each other and if we think that will end without some sort of intervention it won't as has been proved by this thread and dozens of others , adopt a 3 strike rule with a weeks cooling off period for anyone going overboard for there own sakes .

 

[jakehake]

To be honest, I think the mods are kind of restricted in what they can do.

I don't think anyone needs banning, at least not permanently, just everyone needs to calm down and let this thread and all related disagreements stop.

The one thing I don't agree with is the way bullying (or targeting specific posters for abuse) hasn't been clamped down on. Seeing as one a number of occasions one or two on this thread were clearly ganging up on another poster, more should be done to let the instigator of any conflict know what they're doing isn't right and shouldn't be tolerated. That goes for for when this has occurred with normal posters and even moderators being the guilty party. The most unfortunate thing is that in the worst example of this, the 'victim' seems to have stopped posting.

Again fair points though just to say immediately you've taken a side in your "observation". All 3(is it 4 or more I don't know) users have been levelling the same accusation at each other. You have to try and view it from above which is a hard position indeed. Plus you've just lost a vote from WIBG and Mossy in the next election so your cards marked already.

One bit of advice for you though as there is a fair chance you will get voted in, make a game of "Mod Forum" bingo, have a card and write the name of anyone who professes they know how to make the forum run better/perfectly, who thinks the current system is wrong, who thinks the rules are wrong, or who thinks the place is "worse than it used to be". Then see how long it takes for you to get a full house. Rule breakers generally want to be rule makers, probably a reason why the Police and House of Commons is so rotten and full of bad sorts!

 

[jakehake]

adopt a 3 strike rule with a weeks cooling off period for anyone going overboard for there own sakes .

I have said the same recently that maybe the totting up procedure takes to long to be effective (though in the past, the shot across the bows once tended to be enough). It's certainly something they may need to consider changing in the current climate, Sin Bins etc.

 

[Benito]

Again fair points though just to say immediately you've taken a side in your "observation". All 3(is it 4 or more I don't know) users have been levelling the same accusation at each other. You have to try and view it from above which is a hard position indeed. Plus you've just lost a vote from WIBG and Mossy in the next election so your cards marked already.

One bit of advice for you though as there is a fair chance you will get voted in, make a game of "Mod Forum" bingo, have a card and write the name of anyone who professes they know how to make the forum run better/perfectly, who thinks the current system is wrong, who thinks the rules are wrong, or who thinks the place is "worse than it used to be". Then see how long it takes for you to get a full house. Rule breakers generally want to be rule makers, probably a reason why the Police and House of Commons is so rotten and full of bad sorts!

I don't think it's fair to say I've taken a side. But I certainly sympathise more with certain posters involved than others. After all, while neither side was entirely innocent, one did far more to keep the arguments going.

You've got to stop assuming I'm going to stand in the mod election Jake. If it wasn't for recent goings on and my short period of ineligibility I can honestly say I had no intention to stand at all.

That said, I don't know if a record fourth election defeat particularly appeals very much.😉

 

[jakehake]

I don't think it's fair to say I've taken a side. But I certainly sympathise more with certain posters involved than others. After all, while neither side was entirely innocent, one did far more to keep the arguments going.

That's how it goes though, by taking certain words and deciding an opinion is cast iron and then using that as the stick. Easily done you see.

Then you have to start adding in history of these things into play, add in any extenuating factors and then the lines are blurred and it's hard to make a critical judgement. It's a human failing. Maybe some of us have been too soft, maybe some wanted to be too hard and then the middle ground isn't enough. What's done is done though. It's frustrating that users are going as that's the last thing we want, maybe it might spur some users into re-evaluating their actions and behaviours as moderation evidently doesn't affect them, maybe human nature/peer opinion will. Maybe it won't.

 

[dirk pnemouse]

Again fair points though just to say immediately you've taken a side in your "observation". All 3(is it 4 or more I don't know) users have been levelling the same accusation at each other. You have to try and view it from above which is a hard position indeed. Plus you've just lost a vote from WIBG and Mossy in the next election so your cards marked already.

One bit of advice for you though as there is a fair chance you will get voted in, make a game of "Mod Forum" bingo, have a card and write the name of anyone who professes they know how to make the forum run better/perfectly, who thinks the current system is wrong, who thinks the rules are wrong, or who thinks the place is "worse than it used to be". Then see how long it takes for you to get a full house. Rule breakers generally want to be rule makers, probably a reason why the Police and House of Commons is so rotten and full of bad sorts!

Is the rule breakers want to be rule makers aimed at me Jake ? ive had 5 infractions in 10 years and the majority were for outing a alleged deviant and i stand by that , maybe those who are mods can't see the woods for the trees 11 strikes and your out ? its a joke mate and you know it

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I like this place and enjoy debating on here, so from now on I am going to debate just football if the 3 I have mentioned in this thread want to single me out for abuse every time I post I am not going to rise to them. They won't back down with it so I certainly won't let it drag me down to their level and ruin the football debate for other users because they have to wade through our bitching.

 

[jakehake]

Is the rule breakers want to be rule makers aimed at me Jake ? ive had 5 infractions in 10 years and the majority were for outing a alleged deviant and i stand by that , maybe those who are mods can't see the woods for the trees 11 strikes and your out ? its a joke mate and you know it

It wouldn't be much of a game of bingo with only one square on it would it Dirk.

 

[Sepp Blatter]

It's frustrating that users are going as that's the last thing we want, maybe it might spur some users into re-evaluating their actions and behaviours as moderation evidently doesn't affect them, maybe human nature/peer opinion will. Maybe it won't.

Unfortunately, trolls are rarely deterred by appeals to their better nature or peer pressure. Seeing posters leave and a forum fall into disarray is their prime motive - job done for our resident troll.

He can be happy with his work here and will undoubtedly move onto the next target.

 

[jakehake]

I like this place and enjoy debating on here, so from now on I am going to debate just football if the 3 I have mentioned in this thread want to single me out for abuse every time I post I am not going to rise to them. They won't back down with it so I certainly won't let it drag me down to their level and ruin the football debate for other users because they have to wade through our bitching.

As the advice normally goes, if you think people have an issue with you or you'd rather not see it then use the ignore function. Yes you will still see them in quoted posts but it's generally the most effective way to quell/avoid confrontation for the majority of users

 

[dirk pnemouse]

It wouldn't be much of a game of bingo with only one square on it would it Dirk.

3 squares is plenty lets not look for reasons not to change things that why its got to this state in the first place

 

[jakehake]

Unfortunately, trolls are rarely deterred by appeals to their better nature or peer pressure. Seeing posters leave and a forum fall into disarray is their prime motive - job done for our resident troll.

He can be happy with his work here and will undoubtedly move onto the next target.

With our focus on Mental Health and without pointing fingers there is a high correlation with some behaviours and Narcissistic personality disorders. Having read into them and it's alarming what behaviours are exhibited

 

[MOSSYPNE]

To be honest, I think the mods are kind of restricted in what they can do.

I don't think anyone needs banning, at least not permanently, just everyone needs to calm down and let this thread and all related disagreements stop.

The one thing I don't agree with is the way bullying (or targeting specific posters for abuse) hasn't been clamped down on. Seeing as one a number of occasions one or two on this thread were clearly ganging up on another poster, more should be done to let the instigator of any conflict know what they're doing isn't right and shouldn't be tolerated. That goes for for when this has occurred with normal posters and even moderators being the guilty party. The most unfortunate thing is that in the worst example of this, the 'victim' seems to have stopped posting.

The 'victim' as you call him, and he did like to play the victim (even his leaving is just one more victim card from him), was part of a sustained and ugly hate campaign against one poster which accumulated into the worse period of bullying I've witnessed on this forum. He'd already been punished for the same thing a while back and faced another punishment for his cowardly abuse yesterday. That is not a victim.

Yes I played my part, me an Nobber have never really seen eye to eye but I'd held off him due to his mental health problems he told us about, but once he became a Mod it became impossible to stay silent. He repeatedly spammed threads WIBG started with the same old shit, an issue I brought up within the Mod section and it went off from there.

I'm not sorry he's gone, I'd be lying if I said I am, but please don't paint him as the victim in all of this. This man once called me a pedophile for two weeks solid just because we disagreed about drugs, did I spit my dummy out and leave? No. His main fault was he never ever considered he was in the wrong, ever. And that is not a good thing.

 

[MOSSYPNE]

I like this place and enjoy debating on here, so from now on I am going to debate just football if the 3 I have mentioned in this thread want to single me out for abuse every time I post I am not going to rise to them. They won't back down with it so I certainly won't let it drag me down to their level and ruin the football debate for other users because they have to wade through our bitching.

Jesus Ron.

I've responded to you about 12 times in 4 fucking years!

Maybe it would be better for you to join a forum for girls?

 

[Sepp Blatter]

With our focus on Mental Health and without pointing fingers there is a high correlation with some behaviours and Narcissistic personality disorders. Having read into them and it's alarming what behaviours are exhibited

Undoubtedly, such is the anonymous nature of the internet that allows people to act out the life denied to them in the real world. Sometimes, trolls may well be driven by a deep-rooted disorder or trait.

Sometimes, however, they really are just arseholes.

 

[Benito]

The 'victim' as you call him, and he did like to play the victim (even his leaving is just one more victim card from him), was part of a sustained and ugly hate campaign against one poster which accumulated into the worse period of bullying I've witnessed on this forum. He'd already been punished for the same thing a while back and faced another punishment for his cowardly abuse yesterday. That is not a victim.

Yes I played my part, me an Nobber have never really seen eye to eye but I'd held off him due to his mental health problems he told us about, but once he became a Mod it became impossible to stay silent. He repeatedly spammed threads WIBG started with the same old shit, an issue I brought up within the Mod section and it went off from there.

I'm not sorry he's gone, I'd be lying if I said I am, but please don't paint him as the victim in all of this. This man once called me a pedophile for two weeks solid just because we disagreed about drugs, did I spit my dummy out and leave? No. His main fault was he never ever considered he was in the wrong, ever. And that is not a good thing.

Thanks for the reply, I assume my opinion is somehow more valid now than it was previously when I made a criticism of you recently and you resorted to belittling me. Certainly your tone seems to have changed somewhat.

Anyway....I don't think Nobber is completely innocent in all of this, nor do I think he is without fault. But was your persistence in getting rid of him altogether necessary? Yes, he has gone a bit far with WIBG sometimes, but really your the only one on here who thinks he doesn't bring that on himself. In my opinion, your conduct recently towards not only Nobber but Ron and a few others has been disgusting. You've admitted in the past in the past you enjoy stirring up trouble, calling other aspects of the forum boring, and so I don't see it as unfair to deem you the most guilty in all of this jumping to the defence of WIBG just so you can have your fun.