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The reality

The reality

Anthony Lormor

Anthony Lormor

Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
138
Over the last approx 20years we’ve done ok when we’ve had exceptional managers or some exceptional players.

When we’ve had both, we’ve done brilliantly.

Managers that come to mind are Moyes and Davies (sorry).

Players included: Macken, Cresswell, Nugent, Basham, Alexander, Mawene, Davis, Fuller, et

The problem is that once these stars aligned, our managers were out of our league and so were our players. We can take a raw talent like Hugill, make him effective and then we can’t afford to keep him.

Attendances down to 10k vs 15/16k under Moyes doesn’t help.

I generally positive, but I am starting to see that nothing can change unless you have an effective scouting system which allows you to buy £5m+ players with confidence that you are investing in an appreciating asset. See Brentford.
 
During David Moyes tenure as manage our average gates were 13563

Alex Neil managed for a similar amount of time and our gates have averaged 13530

These facts are a bummer, arent they?
 
raefil said:
During David Moyes tenure as manage our average gates were 13563

Alex Neil managed for a similar amount of time and our gates have averaged 13530

These facts are a bummer, arent they?
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Worth noting most of that was a division below and then we only had three sides as the Town End had been knocked down.

Most of the games towards the end of that season where sell outs.
 
Anthony Lormor said:
Over the last approx 20years we’ve done ok when we’ve had exceptional managers or some exceptional players.

When we’ve had both, we’ve done brilliantly.

Managers that come to mind are Moyes and Davies (sorry).

Players included: Macken, Cresswell, Nugent, Basham, Alexander, Mawene, Davis, Fuller, et

The problem is that once these stars aligned, our managers were out of our league and so were our players. We can take a raw talent like Hugill, make him effective and then we can’t afford to keep him.

Attendances down to 10k vs 15/16k under Moyes doesn’t help.

I generally positive, but I am starting to see that nothing can change unless you have an effective scouting system which allows you to buy £5m+ players with confidence that you are investing in an appreciating asset. See Brentford.
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The reality is that over a prolonged period of time we have failed to re-invest in quality players, at the same time have relied on a very limited to non existant scouting system and failed to develop or invest in our youth team and youth team players. 🤔
 
JK said:
Worth noting most of that was a division below and then we only had three sides as the Town End had been knocked down.

Most of the games towards the end of that season where sell outs.
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Yep, alex Neil didnt get a tilt at a promotion season in the league below.

Interesting to note that Graysons promotion season we averaged 10800

The last time we averaged over 15k was 1972. Strangely the following season that dropped to just over 10000
 
Wisemen say said:
The reality is that over a prolonged period of time we have failed to re-invest in quality players, at the same time have relied on a very limited to non existant scouting system and failed to develop or invest in our youth team and youth team players. 🤔
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The reality indeed.

Staggers me how many want to blame the level of our support when history tells us that since 1962, at this level, its been broadly the same with a couple of blips upwards and downwards.
 
Thanks for the clarification, I guess my memory wasn’t 100% correct.

regarding the players, the fact is that we used to be able to pick great players at low cost. Perhaps it was Moyes’ method of watching football matches virtually every day or the care he took to make a decision. Perhaps we underestimated Brown’s network.
But we had the benefit of Macken for a relatively long time before we couldn’t resist the approach from Man City. Moyes rejected the chance at Southampton before eventually going to a bigger Prem team. Grayson left us for Sunderland. Callum Robinson hit form for six months and was gone in a flash.
I don’t suggest that TH should spend more, the current rate of losses is already eye watering, I just recognise that the game has shifted and we are the poor relations.
after the itv digital collapse, I assumed that we would be an advantageous position, but it didn’t work out that way.
after Covid, I thought we would benefit and while Derby and swfc are in the mire, overall the other clubs seem to have plenty of money for transfers and wages.
 
Ever since I started supporting the club we have sold our best players too soon rather than trying to keep hold of them and trying to build a team around them. We then end up having to regroup and start from scratch with inferior players. Just think where we could have ended up if we had built a side around, say, Mark Lawrenson, Tony Morley and Mike Elwiss. You could go on and on through the decades. Nothing changes. It's all so disheartening.
 
Dirty Harry said:
Ever since I started supporting the club we have sold our best players too soon rather than trying to keep hold of them and trying to build a team around them. We then end up having to regroup and start from scratch with inferior players. Just think where we could have ended up if we had built a side around, say, Mark Lawrenson, Tony Morley and Mike Elwiss. You could go on and on through the decades. Nothing changes. It's all so disheartening.
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We really could have built some team around that time, Mel Holden,John Bird, Mick Baxter,Alex Bruce,Gary Williams all sold on around that era.
 
JK said:
Worth noting most of that was a division below and then we only had three sides as the Town End had been knocked down.

Most of the games towards the end of that season where sell outs.
Click to expand...
First home game of the season when we returned to this league under Moyes, we had just short of 14,000. Away attendees were a lot lower than, and we only had 2 modern stands then.

We've had our lowest ever Championship attendances under Hemmimgs. I've no doubt there's more to come.
 
Dirty Harry said:
Ever since I started supporting the club we have sold our best players too soon rather than trying to keep hold of them and trying to build a team around them. We then end up having to regroup and start from scratch with inferior players. Just think where we could have ended up if we had built a side around, say, Mark Lawrenson, Tony Morley and Mike Elwiss. You could go on and on through the decades. Nothing changes. It's all so disheartening.
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Yet with Pearson and Davies we sold them too late.

Think we did it correctly with the likes of Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham, once we knew they had their eyes on a Premier league move, and weren't planning to sign on? Cash in. Holding on for too long is what left us with peanuts for the Bens.
 
HunterLionheart said:
Yet with Pearson and Davies we sold them too late.

Think we did it correctly with the likes of Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham, once we knew they had their eyes on a Premier league move, and weren't planning to sign on? Cash in. Holding on for too long is what left us with peanuts for the Bens.
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Not using the funds from Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham transfers to invest in quality replacements has lead to the predicament we now find ourselves in.🙄
 
Dirty Harry said:
Ever since I started supporting the club we have sold our best players too soon rather than trying to keep hold of them and trying to build a team around them. We then end up having to regroup and start from scratch with inferior players. Just think where we could have ended up if we had built a side around, say, Mark Lawrenson, Tony Morley and Mike Elwiss. You could go on and on through the decades. Nothing changes. It's all so disheartening.
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Lawrenson, Williams, Robinson ending up at football giants such as Brighton a trend that has since carried on for 50 years its not disheartening it’s F*****g depressing! No fun being a North End fan, been in the shadows of our neighbours for decades.
 
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Wisemen say said:
Not using the funds from Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham transfers to invest in quality replacements has lead to the predicament we now find ourselves in.🙄
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Exactly this. We had a pretty decent transfer record financially. The profit we made, we should have then looked at a higher investment in better players. In the hope that we sell for even more money.

Hemmings still thinks we can spend 50k on the standard of DJ
 
HunterLionheart said:
Yet with Pearson and Davies we sold them too late.

Think we did it correctly with the likes of Hugill, Robinson and Cunningham, once we knew they had their eyes on a Premier league move, and weren't planning to sign on? Cash in. Holding on for too long is what left us with peanuts for the Bens.
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And we were also offering deals to Hugill and Robinson for sure before we sold them. So we knew with 12 months to go that they had no intention to sign and we cashed in.

In Robinsons case he apparently didn't feel like we would ever make the required push to go up. Which was a shame as he genuinely loved it here.
 
norky84 said:
And we were also offering deals to Hugill and Robinson for sure before we sold them. So we knew with 12 months to go that they had no intention to sign and we cashed in.

In Robinsons case he apparently didn't feel like we would ever make the required push to go up. Which was a shame as he genuinely loved it here.
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Hugill and Pearson both stated they decided not to sign because they didn’t feel we had the ambition to make the push
 
jamesOB said:
Hugill and Pearson both stated they decided not to sign because they didn’t feel we had the ambition to make the push
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Barkhuizen pretty much said the same yesterday. Maybe he has no intention of staying either unless things drastically change.

We have to remember these lads will still be mates and probably still speak to each other regularly on Whatsapp etc.
 
jamesOB said:
Hugill and Pearson both stated they decided not to sign because they didn’t feel we had the ambition to make the push
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It's been said many times. Although Hugill put in a transfer request when Reading were offering him 20k a week in the Summer Neil took over.
 
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