Uncle Trev.

[Alpine White]

Interesting discussions. I'm no expert on accounting, but do have a general understanding of it. I was wondering, with the big sale of Hugill it looks to me like the club may make an operating profit to June 2018 when the club declares its accounts at the end of March

 

[mapping]

Only a tiny handful of people will actually know the full extent of shares, debts, and loans. So please stop dropping links from companies house like its gospel . its embarrassing.

 

[LostinYorkshire]

Interesting discussions. I'm no expert on accounting, but do have a general understanding of it. I was wondering, with the big sale of Hugill it looks to me like the club may make an operating profit to June 2018 when the club declares its accounts at the end of March

In 2016/17 the club made an operating loss of £2.85million before tax, with profit on player sales of £2.19million. The club spent £2.06million on player acquisitions but this goes on the balance sheet and isn't deducted from the profit.

In 2017/18 operating costs have probably increased but with the sale of Hugill I would expect the club to make an operating profit before tax.

 

[epsilon]

mapping, in my view you're partly right.

For the reason stated, financial information can be tough to read.

However, it doesn't make it inadmissible to the forum. People will respond as they see fit.

Going further, it is not embarrassing, in any way. These are facts, after all.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northwest/111990-debt-restructure-preston-north-end

That's my drop - an easier read.

This is a significant, independent quote from KPMG :
"...Preston North End is in a very good place, thanks to the dedication and support of the main shareholder.""

As I say, you have a point, but you probably should be a bit cautious about actions which blank history.

 

[mapping]

mapping, in my view you're partly right.

For the reason stated, financial information can be tough to read.

However, it doesn't make it inadmissible to the forum. People will respond as they see fit.

Going further, it is not embarrassing, in any way. These are facts, after all.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northwest/111990-debt-restructure-preston-north-end

That's my drop - an easier read.

This is a significant, independent quote from KPMG :
"...Preston North End is in a very good place, thanks to the dedication and support of the main shareholder.""

As I say, you have a point, but you probably should be a bit cautious about actions which blank history.

why thank you

 

[simo]

Only a tiny handful of people will actually know the full extent of shares, debts, and loans. So please stop dropping links from companies house like its gospel . its embarrassing.

Not sure how posting a legal document is embarassing but hey ho.

 

[mapping]

wasn't a personal attack, just these documents are just that, documents, there could be shell upon shell upon layer of companies disguising the real truth , and just catching a glimpse with these documents I didn't and feel is a real representation of any large companys accounts.

 

[Pilot]

wasn't a personal attack, just these documents are just that, documents, there could be shell upon shell upon layer of companies disguising the real truth , and just catching a glimpse with these documents I didn't and feel is a real representation of any large companys accounts.

Are you suggesting the accounts don’t give a true and fair view of the company and are therefore illegal, and that the auditors haven’t done their job properly?

 

[Pilot]

He can't simply pull the plug, he would have to withdraw his financial support and put the club into administration. The administrators would then have to find someone to take over the club and Hemmings might get some of his money back from the 'new owners' but he also risks getting nothing.

Even if the club became profitable it would have to put the retained profit into positive territory before any dividends could be paid, in 2017 retained profits were negative £17.5million.

So to get his money back he would need to sell the club for more than it owes him.

Why would you pay yourself a dividend with the resulting tax liability when you can just repay loans owed to you?

 

[mapping]

Are you suggesting the accounts don’t give a true and fair view of the company and are therefore illegal, and that the auditors haven’t done their job properly?

I think you know very well what I am suggesting as stated above.

 

[LostinYorkshire]

Why would you pay yourself a dividend with the resulting tax liability when you can just repay loans owed to you?

See post #19

 

[Liberation]

I think you know very well what I am suggesting as stated above.

No matter what anyone believes/knows, there is one inescapable fact ...... You don't get to be a billionaire unless your very clever minions can juggle /hide and legally fudge figures. 🙂

 

[LostinYorkshire]

wasn't a personal attack, just these documents are just that, documents, there could be shell upon shell upon layer of companies disguising the real truth , and just catching a glimpse with these documents I didn't and feel is a real representation of any large companys accounts.

I don't think it is that complicated.

PNE Football Club Ltd is owned by PNE Ltd, PNE Ltd is owned by Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd, Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd. is owned by Grovemoor Ltd (IoM)

In my opinion the published accounts for the 3 PNE companies give a good indication of what is going on.

 

[mapping]

No matter what anyone believes/knows, there is one inescapable fact ...... You don't get to be a billionaire unless your very clever minions can juggle /hide and legally fudge figures. 🙂

🙂

 

[jakehake]

No matter what anyone believes/knows, there is one inescapable fact ...... You don't get to be a billionaire unless your very clever minions can juggle /hide and legally fudge figures. 🙂

Plus he's been bright enough to only fritter away a miniscule percentage of his income on a football club compared to the 7,000 idiots who contribute a much higher percentage each year to show just how much more loyal and involved in running the club they are

 

[wld]

Only a tiny handful of people will actually know the full extent of shares, debts, and loans. So please stop dropping links from companies house like its gospel . its embarrassing.

Why? There’s threads discussing goalkeeping coaches, blaming injuries on the way we train/play/pitches we play on, talking about the training ground etc - all without full knowledge of the facts. If anything, discussing certified accounts is based more wholly on facts.

 

[BPIG]

Personally, I'll be eternally grateful for what Trev has done and is continuing to do. There will also always be a touch of frustration at how close we are and the seeming lack of ambition from him this past Summer.

However it's his money and I don't think it's right to demand how it's spent. It's still a business at the end of the day, admittedly a slightly dysfunctional one, but a business nonetheless.

I just hope we don't end up in the shit when he does eventually pass.

 

[mapping]

Why? There’s threads discussing goalkeeping coaches, blaming injuries on the way we train/play/pitches we play on, talking about the training ground etc - all without full knowledge of the facts. If anything, discussing certified accounts is based more wholly on facts.[/QUOTE

based wholly on fact , lol , bit of an eye opener at the fans forum when the " fact " was revealed trev was owed 73 mil in soft loans .

 

[LostinYorkshire]

Why? There’s threads discussing goalkeeping coaches, blaming injuries on the way we train/play/pitches we play on, talking about the training ground etc - all without full knowledge of the facts. If anything, discussing certified accounts is based more wholly on facts.[/QUOTE

based wholly on fact , lol , bit of an eye opener at the fans forum when the " fact " was revealed trev was owed 73 mil in soft loans .

I think you are getting your facts wrong there.

£30+ million of loans and unpayed interest were written off in 2014, since then the club has recieved further loans. The outstanding loans as of June 2017 were £30.65million.

I think the PNE chairman was talking about the total amount of money Hemmings has put into PNE not outstanding loans.

 

[mapping]

I think you are getting your facts wrong there.

£30+ million of loans and unpayed interest were written off in 2014, since then the club has recieved further loans. The outstanding loans as of June 2017 were £30.65million.

I think the PNE chairman was talking about the total amount of money Hemmings has put into PNE not outstanding loans.

Just using the chief executive exact words ,