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To be fair, how much of that is the lack of any other reasonable distribution option?
Whiteman
To be fair, how much of that is the lack of any other reasonable distribution option?
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Yeah, launching it down the right hand side, not tapping it around the our own half. Lowey isn't picking him cause he doesn't want tapping it about, hes gone for energy and playing in opposition half. Not saying that's right ffs. Just how it is.
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Piss poor today no doubt about it but we've played this lobs down the right in last two home games and we won one of them
You serious?
Lowe's system is completely built around the pivot.
It's literally how we always play.
Could you imagine Ferguson leaving Roy Keane on the bench for 4 games after an injury so that Nicky Butt keeps his place after a good run?
No chance. Ferguson, Klopp, Guardiola etc regularly change/changed winning sides.
Ben Whiteman is arguably our best centre midfielder. 4 games after his injury, he should be starting.
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Not recently.
Lowe's system is a 3-1-4-2 (a playmaking "6", two "8's" and two strikers), this season we've been playing 3-4-2-1 (two defensive "6's", two "10's" and one striker) due to a lack of depth up front.
In Lowe's first game at home against Barnsley, the 6 (Whiteman), the 3 centre-halves and the keeper were clearly instructed to play the ball out from the back, meanwhile the two strikers and the wingbacks were essentially a front 4 and the two central midfielders sat on the halfway line either side of the centre-circle.
As time passed from then up to the end of last season, and arguably as Lowe because realised that he doesn't have the players to accomplish the above, the wingbacks and the central midfielders have dropped back and become increasingly involved in the buildup play, but both strikers remained where they were leaving them completely isolated from the rest of the team.
This season, we seem to have stopped trying to play at the back as much and have started going long more - this has let the midfield and the wingbacks get back up the pitch and results in us being at the right end of the pitch with the ball far more frequently than when we try and pass our way up there.
For me there is nothing lost in asking Whiteman to do exactly what Ledson has been doing, providing that he can get forward a little more and play in the knowledge that he'll be covered by McCann rather than asking him to go deeper and try to recycle the ball around defensive players who it clearly doesn't suit.
Neither Ledson or MCann offer anything on the ball. They very rarely look to receive the ball when we are in possession and when they do it is often lumped forwarded or given away. Maybe it’s tactical to by pass the midfield two but it doesn’t make for a fluid game in possession. When Whiteman came on yesterday you could see him demanding possession and looking to feed in Potts and Mads to feet. He seemed to make more passes in a short period yesterday than either Ledson or McCann have made all season.
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Good post and what I've been saying, obviously Ron doesn't understand that. No surprise there.
Bit in bold is right also - not really his game but he has to adapt.
Whiteman will start (imo) v Leicester.
The scouse stuff was just a joke. I rarely mention it compared to many posters on here.
The team has hit a sticky patch now so to me it just seems logical to start one of the best players at the club which he has proved over the last 18 months.
I get the injury angle but Brady was also out for pretty much all of pre season and he's already started a league game.
Whiteman-Browne-Holmes is going to be pretty good as a unit this season (or at least up to January) so let's give it the opportunity to start games and get the individual understanding as soon as possible.
They don't trust Ledson or McCann to come short and recycle the ball effectively. Ledson has done fine so far compared to last season but everyone knows he's nowhere near reliable in possession against mega press teams.
Whiteman is simply much much better at that aspect of midfield player so if the CBs have him as option directly infront there will be more passing to feet going on.
No way Will Keane will be on the bench 4 games running, he'll be starting Tuesday probably but certainly Ipswich at the latest.
Brady came in for a start not long after being named back in the squad and he's had a similar length of time out to Whiteman and is older.
Obviously someone like Riis being out for 9-10 months is completely different, that is a player you do slowly ease back into the team.
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I dunno if people can read but I agree Whiteman should be playing ahead of probs ledson. However, imo I don't think the 'pivot' is in play much this season due to lack of 'trust' more a deliberate tactic to play in the opposition half over playing out from the back. With the players we have I'm all for this approach tbh. We're not recycling anything and Lowey has chosen mccann and Ledson I guess cause he believes they're more suited to our approach. It's nowt to do with trust at all.
He has to. We need someone who can hold possession and relieve pressure otherwise we'll be under the cosh for the full 90.....which won't end well.
No matter what our record of results is (and it has been impressive) I will always be of the belief that we are a better team with Whiteman in the CDM role as opposed to Ledson. Nothing in particular against Ledson, I just feel Whiteman is a better player and prompts the team to generally play better football
Gets it down, plays smart passes, set pieces, takes it of the CB's, good at defending.
We will be an even better team with him playing.
Why did we buy Mads and osmajic if they don’t fit the system we play. We know these 2 like ball played to feet but seeing as the system we play now is to bypass the midfield why did we buy them instead of buying players that fit RLs style of play…we have already seen Mads benched as we cant get the best out of him..just means the value of these players will decrease.
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I honestly don't think Whiteman would have made a difference on Saturday and may even have made things worse. To me it was quite clear that for the first time this season an opposition manager had paid "little Preston" the respect we deserved from our start and Corberan had done his homework on us. He set up without a striker and had a high bank of quick, tricky midfielders stopping us from playing out from the back, exposing our lack of skill in defence and forcing us to play long.
If Whiteman had been the pivot and we'd try playing through him he'd have been mugged on the turn every singe time he received it and we'd still have been hitting the channels to bypass their high press.
We were tactically outdone by a very savvy manager, with better players available to him. We need to learn from this, and know how to adapt in-game next time a team sets up against us like that. For me, that would have been to go 4-4-2 and hit is long to two big men up front (Keane and Osmajic) to bypass their press and have Millar and Frokjaer as the wingers
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Corberan's press is undoubtedly one of the best in the league, but we don't try and play out from the back regardless of the opposition. Only Rotherham and Huddersfiled play fewer passes per possession and In the 2 games prior to WBA, Ledson completed 6 total passes in each game.
Kipre and Bartley won everything. Whiteman has been stifled by their press before, giving away a soft goal in the 2-0 last season, but he should have been brought on earlier as our usual long ball tactic was failing miserably. Did think he added a bit of intensity on the ball when he came on, and played a great ball in behind for Brady that neither McCann nor Ledson have in their locker