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Ambition

Ambition

Durutti said:
Very true but anyone who has followed the Brentford story knows it's a very long term project with some hairy moments.

Would PNE fans, for example, be happy with mid table mediocrity for a few seasons if we blooded lots of new young signings from all over the place signed on the cheap? I'm not sure everyone would be happy with that. I personally would.
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Since promotion from L1, Brentford have finished ahead of us every season bar one:

2014/15 5th - reached play-offs
2015/16 9th
2016/17 10th
2017/18 9th
2018/19 11th
2019/20 3rd - reached play-off final
2020/21 3rd - won play-off final

Yeah, I think PNE fans would accept that sort of "mediocrity" compared to the sort we've currently got.
 
jamesOB said:
Yes, because we’d be on our way to having a semblance of an identity. Right now we have nothing that defines what North End is, except “paid the taxman”
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What strikes me as utterly bizarre is that we had this identity
Thracia said:
Since promotion from L1, Brentford have finished ahead of us every season bar one:

2014/15 5th - reached play-offs
2015/16 9th
2016/17 10th
2017/18 9th
2018/19 11th
2019/20 3rd - reached play-off final
2020/21 3rd - won play-off final

Yeah, I think PNE fans would accept that sort of "mediocrity" compared to the sort we've currently got.
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Fair point. I would defo take that
 
Durutti said:
Very true but anyone who has followed the Brentford story knows it's a very long term project with some hairy moments.

Would PNE fans, for example, be happy with mid table mediocrity for a few seasons if we blooded lots of new young signings from all over the place signed on the cheap? I'm not sure everyone would be happy with that. I personally would.
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Don't we have mid table mediocrity now?
 
MBcha said:
Don't we have mid table mediocrity now?
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Yeah, as I've said, I would take that for the foreseeable if I am seeing an introduction of young players who are going to be put into the first team and developed. As Phil Foden's progress has shown, it's not all about picking the best team for winning the game, you need a long term vision of what players can become.

Said it so many times but the treatment of the likes of Bayliss has been fucking criminal at this club.
 
Durutti said:
Yeah, as I've said, I would take that for the foreseeable if I am seeing an introduction of young players who are going to be put into the first team and developed. As Phil Foden's progress has shown, it's not all about picking the best team for winning the game, you need a long term vision of what players can become.

Said it so many times but the treatment of the likes of Bayliss has been fucking criminal at this club.
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Bayliss, Earl, Dolan, O'Reilly, Mavidi, Gordon, Brownhill.

We don't have an abundance of youth in our team and it would be a brilliant strategy to be one of the clubs that gives a serious chance to youth as we'd probably get more chance of quality premier league youth loans and cast offs.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Bayliss, Earl, Dolan, O'Reilly, Mavidi, Gordon, Brownhill.

We don't have an abundance of youth in our team and it would be a brilliant strategy to be one of the clubs that gives a serious chance to youth as we'd probably get more chance of quality premier league youth loans and cast offs.
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Baxter an all while we are at it. Scoring and playing well for Cork now. Talent there
 
In fairness, someone playing half decently in the second tier of Irish football doesn't mean I want them in and around the first team here. Loaned out is exactly the right place for lads like that for now.
 
Liberation said:
Unless Trev is offered anything like his money back ( 70 mil ish ) then we are stuck with it ( the share buy back proves it) ... Who knows, we might get lucky and go up but it won't be by design that's for sure.
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So in other words it's not happening then.
We will all learn one day, the older generation (well most) have learnt, the younger?......
 
Durutti said:
Last paragraph, totally agree. I feel a tad embarrassed for grown men literally stamping their feet on here that THEY haven't seen PNE in the top flight (it's not a right) then turning that frustration on the guy who, as flawed as he is, has put an absolute fortune in.

If Hemmings was to 'go for it' his gamble would be that we would finish ahead of three other teams including three who have come down with last year's TV money and parachute payments. Out of a league of 24. It does make sense that he won't just give a manager a kitty as there are absolutely no guarantees it would make a difference.

Tin hat on.
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I just have to sigh at this an I usually like your posts.
Is there really any other owner of clubs that doesn't fund their club these days? Is there? Really? Don't get me wrong, I am eternally grateful for the money he puts in, so we climb to the dizzy heights of that fantastic magnitude of being "debt free" ( so to speak!) Let's not put a saints ring above his head for doing that though, all owners of clubs get there hand in their pocket these days, they simply have to!
Look, are all owners 86 years old? No they are bloody well not!!
 
When you’re worth over a billion at that age why do you settle on simply floating or existing when you could have a crack at glory? He is a passionate North ender, I have no doubt about that but what he is trying to achieve on the cheap is just strange! Does he think he will live forever or maybe die content with what we have obtained under his reign? Its a strange one!
 
lenny said:
We have ambition so have Brentford the difference is how different we are in trying to for fill that ambition one club buys the best players they can and reinvest a lot of the money their top players are sold for . The other team go for the cheap option and when they sell their better players reinvest very little . Well done Brentford playing football the right way being entertaining you deserve you promotion . One more club a similar size to us showing Trevor how it should be done .
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The thing is Brentford promotion, should be firing a rocket up the backsides of Hemmings and Ridsdale, we could be looking at it and seeing it for it is, a similar sized club to us (probs smaller) that is managed well and reinvests their money correctly.

but
JK said:
Well done Brentford. Good club with good fans.

Another club simular size to us makes the Premier League..... meanwhile we plod along.

At least we've paid HMRC though.
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what a stupid response, we aren’t asking Trev to just magically give us a transfer war chest of £30m, but what we are asking for is when we sell Callum Robinson for £7m we then invest in an adequate young replacement for £3m
 
Jack Daniels said:
They've got the Andre Gray price wrong, he cost Burnley a record £6m. Burnley later sold him to Watford for £18m and spent £15m of that on Chris Wood from Leeds.

TJH seems to have a mental block 99% of the time on any fee above £1.3m, Whiteman being the exception.

I'm sick of being a North End fan at the minute, talk from the hierarchy every pre-season about "ambitions to reach The Premier League" and then we sign some reserve from the bottom half of L1.

Enough "talking the talk", time to actually "walk the walk".

Sadly, I really think that the two in control don't care one jot if we never make the top flight.

Sad state of affairs.
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But but but... Bayliss was 2 million, record signing! ;-)
 
Naughton's moustache said:
I just have to sigh at this an I usually like your posts.
Is there really any other owner of clubs that doesn't fund their club these days? Is there? Really? Don't get me wrong, I am eternally grateful for the money he puts in, so we climb to the dizzy heights of that fantastic magnitude of being "debt free" ( so to speak!) Let's not put a saints ring above his head for doing that though, all owners of clubs get there hand in their pocket these days, they simply have to!
Look, are all owners 86 years old? No they are bloody well not!!
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I've never put a saints ring over his head, I don't particularly like the guy, I just don't feel it's a lump sum cash solution, it's a Brentfordesque approach solution that matters. That should be coming from Ridsdale more than it comes from Hemmings for me.

As I keep saying, it's really worth getting an expert's neutral view on it on from the from the Finney podcast where Kieran from the price of football was on. I think it's the Wycombe cup episode. Totally changed my viewpoint on it and the picture you paint of the division being fine as owners reluctantly dip into their pockets for paying the bills is actually quite a false one. It's more a case of everyone is sitting in a house that is on fire.

As I said, I realise this is the unpopular opinion and it's easy to just throw everything at the feet of Hemmings but as I say, I think there's good and bad points to his ownership.
 


Kieran Maguire summarises the Brentford Model as above.

And it's obviously true that - compared to us - they sign way better talent. Not just "identify" - they sign it.

And they pay better wages - but they don't spend a lot more than us on wages in total, and they employ a lot more players and coaching staff for their money (between 80 and 100, while we stick to around 70-80).

They don't blow us away on turnover either - although in the last 2 years they've seen some modest growth, while we've seen modest decline (even pre-Covid).

Cup runs and getting on the telly don't seem to do them any harm.

Can't help feeling we're spending inflated wages compared to the numbers and quality in our squad and staff.

I think part of this is how we squandered the first 2 seasons after promotion "balancing the books" - our wages precisely matched turnover for both of Grayson's seasons, while Brentford's wages always exceeded their turnover from promotion onwards - as if they were planning for something more than just minimising the owner's financial contribution.

More recently, Brentford's squad book value has risen from £9m in 2017 to £32m last year - while ours rose from £1.7m to £5.6m.

Brentford have finished above us every season bar one since promotion, and with better goal difference too (+14, +37 and +44 over us in the last 3 seasons).

This huge quality gap despite similar resources can only be down to poor management.

Player trading is central to Brentford's whole strategy - it's how they overcome the limitations of their traditional income streams, which (like ours) aren't going to change.

They have clearly been excellent when it comes to player trading - whereas we seem to be allergic to paying competitive transfer fees, and a very soft touch for handing out extensions to crocks and fringe players, and 2-year deals to players with zero resale value.

Brentford responded to losing the play-off final last year by investing a club record fee in Ivan Toney and going straight back to Wembley again.

We responded to tumbling meekly out of 6th place last year by falling apart on and off the field this season.

They're now looking forward to the Premier League, while we're looking forward to 2 more years of hoofing it up to Ched Evans.
 
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HemmingsHappyClapper said:
The thing is Brentford promotion, should be firing a rocket up the backsides of Hemmings and Ridsdale, we could be looking at it and seeing it for it is, a similar sized club to us (probs smaller) that is managed well and reinvests their money correctly.

but

what a stupid response, we aren’t asking Trev to just magically give us a transfer war chest of £30m, but what we are asking for is when we sell Callum Robinson for £7m we then invest in an adequate young replacement for £3m
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The fact is all of the money from player sales has gone on transfer fees, signing on fees and wages. The cost of maintaining a squad goes up every year. What you’re actually asking for is an increase in TH’s contribution and a war chest which realistically wouldn’t be far off £30m.
 
HemmingsHappyClapper said:
The thing is Brentford promotion, should be firing a rocket up the backsides of Hemmings and Ridsdale, we could be looking at it and seeing it for it is, a similar sized club to us (probs smaller) that is managed well and reinvests their money correctly.

but

what a stupid response, we aren’t asking Trev to just magically give us a transfer war chest of £30m, but what we are asking for is when we sell Callum Robinson for £7m we then invest in an adequate young replacement for £3m
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I’m assuming you didn’t mean to quote JK there?
 
norfolk white said:
That’s the difference between us and them - we sell out top players and non of the money is reinvested in as good or better up and coming players e.g. Robinson, Cunningham, Hugill, etc whilst Brentford’s owner lets his manager/coach reinvest the money from their sales. This makes a massive difference
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In all fairness I actually think we do reinvest quite a bit of the money (especially over the past two/three seasons)
The main issue is (and California got this spot on) there is no plan/foresight plus there is too much interference from
Hemmings and his side kick.

I’m just think of the wages we offered Sinclair. Could we maybe have used this to get pearson and Davies to sign on.

Signing Bayliss for 1.6 million when we could have got Moore for the same amount.

We need to have a long term plan and we need to identify the right players in the right areas not a midfielder we don’t need or 34 year old has beens on two year deals. The plan is all wrong.

How much did ripley cost again?
 
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