Matchday Thread Birmingham City v PNE | 13.10.26 | KO:8PM | Championship

[Aqueous]

I fully expect to go down, problem is it may take years to come back. We are in such a mess, on and off pitch. Totally fed up with the club to be honest. What there ST sales pitch going to be in league one, 😡.

They don't need one. Just like last summer, and the one before it, most absolutely lap up the 'cheap' season tickets because they want to go on the footy at a weekend and can't possibly imagine doing anything else with their mates etc. They will buy their season tickets again.
We have the most apathetic fan base in the football league. We still have plenty saying they don't want a takeover or any change and that the hemmings are saviours.
It's a joke.

 

[Bodney Rewes]

I did say at the time that Hecky’s comment along the lines of “where would PNE be without Storey, Lindsay, and Hughes” was pretty ridiculous.

Whichever way we spin it, this squad is far weaker than it was last season (despite what some said post-Lincoln), and that’s the primary reason why our results have been so poor. Losing Jebbison, Armstrong, Whiteman, Osmajic, and Dobbin has been massive - they were all established, more than competent championship players.

Given the results this calendar year, PH can not have been surprised to have been sacked. However, what I take issue with is the bullshit narrative whiplash. Our poor start to the season with PH was all down to him: poor subs, subs only on 60 minutes, bad tactics (with no real analysis or alternative in detail), lost the dressing room etc.

The following three games we have heard very, very little about tactics or timing of subs. All of a sudden, the players are ‘gutless pieces of shit’ and the issue goes way beyond the manager; the latter of which is true, but such sympathy was not afforded this season pre-Grezza after a shit transfer window (which 85% thought was good simply because we spent some money).

I've always thought Heckingbottom got unfair flack for the tactics, substitutions, etc because of the players we've had available. People were asking for him to play a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 last season but we didn't have any wingers available. People wanted him to overhaul the squad and he signed 16 players last season but people were still complaining because the quality was poor (which there isn't much you can do about that if you want an overhaul on no budget). People wanted an improvement on his first season and he managed to get us to finish 14th with one of our strongest first halves to a season in a while but people were still complaining because of a poor second half to the season. For what it's worth, it was a very poor run and Heckingbottom didn't seem to know how to turn it around.

Ultimately though I think the club was right to sack Heckingbottom because our form continued to be terrible and it was basically the only lever we could pull to try and turn things around. I don't think Heckingbottom helped himself though considering the poor recruitment that happened under his watch this summer with a record budget available. He obviously isn't solely responsible but under the way our club operates, he does bare some responsibility. Admittedly, he wasn't helped by the slow recruitment that basically meant pre-season was a waste and our inability to sign all our targets definitely won't have helped. It is ridiculous that we still needed another squad overhaul this summer though as it just meant we gave ourselves too much work. We can't keep overhauling the squad because there's bound to be some failures along the way and those gaps can be catastrophic.

 

[sliper]

I'd drop some players and put a couple of our youngsters in. Its a risk but no risk no reward. I remember Steve Doyle being in the first team at 16 and being our best player. If they are good enough.. they are old enough. This set of players need to know that their days of drawing good money are very much on the line. Its an opportunity for someone.

 

[Wisemen say]

Think the best thing to happen to us will be to get relegated and get Alexander to build a team capable of competing and hopefully do an Ipswich.

Birmingham were relegated to league 1 and got promoted and are now competing for top 6.

If you think the powers that be in the I.O.M will fund any sort of promotion attempt from league 1 if we are relegated think again.
They will cut their cloth accordingly to the division we are in, recruitment from the basement level, so just even worse dour football and a relegation battle in the league below 🥴☹️

 

[Wisemen say]

I'd drop some players and put a couple of our youngsters in. Its a risk but no risk no reward. I remember Steve Doyle being in the first team at 16 and being our best player. If they are good enough.. they are old enough. This set of players need to know that their days of drawing good money are very much on the line. Its an opportunity for someone.

I wish we had a Steve Doyle on our books in the Youth Team/Academy, sadly I don't think we have.🥴

 

[IrishNorthEnder93]

I'd drop some players and put a couple of our youngsters in. Its a risk but no risk no reward. I remember Steve Doyle being in the first team at 16 and being our best player. If they are good enough.. they are old enough. This set of players need to know that their days of drawing good money are very much on the line. Its an opportunity for someone.

I said this and got laughed at for suggesting it, they should definitely look to incorporate Reid into the 1st team, that lad has a bright future ahead of him.

 

[OB1]

I said this and got laughed at for suggesting it, they should definitely look to incorporate Reid into the 1st team, that lad has a bright future ahead of him.

He doesn't even start regularly for the U21s. Genuine question, because I dont care much either way, but how much have you actually seen him and what are you basing him having a bright future on? Because he's currently third choice YT striker despite being the oldest of the three

The only youngster who even has a chance of coming through is Cathal O'Sullivan but hes still about a month off being fit enough to even play a part at senior level

 

[mozzchops]

I think we’ve got to go full on defensive, and just give up on any idea of attacking football until (hopefully) we can panic buy some reinforcements in January. We need to grind out enough 0-0s and hopefully a few lucky wins to stay in touch until then.

That means a proper flat back 5 (not with wing backs), another robust (as possible) bank of 4 in front, and one poor bastard up top.

Don’t really think there’s any room for the ‘10s’ (Moran and Devine) who are pretty useless in our current situation. At best the can cover the wide midfield when we are inevitably chasing a goal.

If I was GA I’d be going with something along the lines of the following when the relevant players are available:

Iversen

Offiah/Clarke
Storey
Lindsay (I hate the guy, but no alternative and he must score his annual goal at some point)
Gibson
Hughes

Mills/Small (think he’s marginally better on the right)
Thompson
Leroy
Vukcevic/Wiley (if the latter is ever fit)

No idea who to put up top. They’re going to have a shit time regardless. I’d fancy Lang (if fit) to have the best chance of scabbing a few goals.

I think Burgzorg and Erabi are completely shite and stink of the crap we had last time we got relegated.

All of what I’ve said sounds horrible and painful to watch. But in my opinion the only way we get to January with a fighting chance.

I’d have something similar, but possibly try Gibson in one of the midfield roles to help shore up the chances teams are creating infront of the defence. It’s going to be horrible to watch but shoring up goals is paramount.

 

[RibbletonWhite2.0]

Ok…can you name me any young player we have developed, surely they all haven’t had bad attitudes?

Permanent or loans?

If it's permanent not many.
If it's loans I could list you loads.

@OB1 makes a point. If you don't have the right attitude ability is useless.

This notion that Small was some quality left winger ripping it up in league one before we turned him into the player he is now is just nonesense. He played wing back most of the time at Charlton before he joined up. There were several times last season were he failed to close down the crosser or jogged back. This isn't something new. He just isn't very good.

Now could we coach him to be better? Absolutely but you can't coach someone to be better if they are jogging back or can't be bothered closing the crosser down.

I'm not defending the club - our development of young permanent players over the past few years has been non existent but that is because we have hardly signed any. The culture within the squad at the moment is shocking - worst I've ever seen. No fight, no desire. That includes younger players like Small and Devine as well.

 

[Kendale]

I'd drop some players and put a couple of our youngsters in. Its a risk but no risk no reward. I remember Steve Doyle being in the first team at 16 and being our best player. If they are good enough.. they are old enough. This set of players need to know that their days of drawing good money are very much on the line. Its an opportunity for someone.

Well I remember Steve Doyle coming in (and indeed others Mivharl Robinson et al)...but Bobbage says there isn't anybody of that kind of quality at all.

 

[Durutti]

I’d have something similar, but possibly try Gibson in one of the midfield roles to help shore up the chances teams are creating infront of the defence. It’s going to be horrible to watch but shoring up goals is paramount.

Or Clarke. Alexander can probably remember a seminal RB getting moved into DM at becoming a revelation.

 

[Waddie]

I remember being at a party with Steve Doyle.
It was a Saturday night and all he wanted to do was watch MOtD!!

 

[RibbletonWhite2.0]

I did say at the time that Hecky’s comment along the lines of “where would PNE be without Storey, Lindsay, and Hughes” was pretty ridiculous.

Whichever way we spin it, this squad is far weaker than it was last season (despite what some said post-Lincoln), and that’s the primary reason why our results have been so poor. Losing Jebbison, Armstrong, Whiteman, Osmajic, and Dobbin has been massive - they were all established, more than competent championship players.

Given the results this calendar year, PH can not have been surprised to have been sacked. However, what I take issue with is the bullshit narrative whiplash. Our poor start to the season with PH was all down to him: poor subs, subs only on 60 minutes, bad tactics (with no real analysis or alternative in detail), lost the dressing room etc.

The following three games we have heard very, very little about tactics or timing of subs. All of a sudden, the players are ‘gutless pieces of shit’ and the issue goes way beyond the manager; the latter of which is true, but such sympathy was not afforded this season pre-Grezza after a shit transfer window (which 85% thought was good simply because we spent some money).

But Heckingbottom was a big part of that rubbish transfer window. You talk about tactics. He couldn't decide what formation he wanted to play with.

I'm not giving Heckingbottom any sympathy when he has managed over 100 games for us, won 27% of his games, had us in two relegation battles (and on the way to one last season too.) You might want to give him sympathy but you are wrong. He is a terrible manager who has left us in a mess. Glad to see the back of him.

 

[callum-pne]

I’ve seen it starting to creep in already and as if the results and performances aren’t bad enough the “put the youth players in” brigade are out in full swing and I imagine it’ll only get worse.

 

[Doyler]

But Heckingbottom was a big part of that rubbish transfer window. You talk about tactics. He couldn't decide what formation he wanted to play with.

Well, an important distinction is that he wanted to play with a back four, but recruitment would dictate whether we were able to do that or not. So he did know what formation he wanted to play with.

What he didn’t know, because of our recruitment, was if he would be able to play it effectively or not. And then, as it happened, our results (though not necessarily performance) were poor regardless of what formation we played.

 

[OB1]

I’ve seen it starting to creep in already and as if the results and performances aren’t bad enough the “put the youth players in” brigade are out in full swing and I imagine it’ll only get worse.

Thing is, the rate we’re picking up injuries we’re probably gonna have to end up using some of the youth players. But it won’t be the ones people keep shouting for. It’ll be the likes of Gryba, Carroll and Nolan rather than people like Reid

 

[Durutti]

Well, an important distinction is that he wanted to play with a back four, but recruitment would dictate whether we were able to do that or not. So he did know what formation he wanted to play with.

What he didn’t know, because of our recruitment, was if he would be able to play it effectively or not. And then, as it happened, our results (though not necessarily performance) were poor regardless of what formation we played.

Knowing if the players will be good enough is part of the job . A huge part. Getting your formation suited to what budget you have, again, massive (Bradford essentially copied Stockport as they were skint and recruited for 5 3 2 for years)

We also know, from what Ridsdale has said in the past and from the Lang signing that Heckingbottom was very involved in transfers and almost works side by side with Wallace to recruit (but in Lang's case could force the hand).

How the living fuck Wallace is still getting a wage for his work here is beyond me.

But @RibbletonWhite2.0 is spot on. Heck is very much a (or the) driving force behind this season.

 

[Yoowell]

Permanent or loans?

If it's permanent not many.
If it's loans I could list you loads.

@OB1 makes a point. If you don't have the right attitude ability is useless.

This notion that Small was some quality left winger ripping it up in league one before we turned him into the player he is now is just nonesense. He played wing back most of the time at Charlton before he joined up. There were several times last season were he failed to close down the crosser or jogged back. This isn't something new. He just isn't very good.

Now could we coach him to be better? Absolutely but you can't coach someone to be better if they are jogging back or can't be bothered closing the crosser down.

I'm not defending the club - our development of young permanent players over the past few years has been non existent but that is because we have hardly signed any. The culture within the squad at the moment is shocking - worst I've ever seen. No fight, no desire. That includes younger players like Small and Devine as well.

I would say that the majority of loans that have ‘developed’ with us have done so because we have given them game time..end of.
The hard bit had already been done we just had to put their name on a Championship team sheet.

 

[Victorthesecond]

Devine's performances are down to one person - Devine

Yup. There's a definite feeling he's got a "big money move"( well by our standards it is) and doesn't care any more. Grezza has his work cut out here - keep playing him (offers nothing), bench him (still offers nothing), drop him (still offers nothing) but the last two options might at least give him a kick UTA. And, by other accounts in this thread, get him away from his mates....

 

[HunterLionheart]

Yup. There's a definite feeling he's got a "big money move"( well by our standards it is) and doesn't care any more. Grezza has his work cut out here - keep playing him (offers nothing), bench him (still offers nothing), drop him (still offers nothing) but the last two options might at least give him a kick UTA. And, by other accounts in this thread, get him away from his mates....

People are massively overstating how apparently poor he's been.

By far been the most creative player in our side this season, despite our lack of any pace or ability up front.

Don't get me wrong, he's not hit the heights of last season, and I worry about his fitness, but the idea that he suddenly offers nothing is the usual overreaction.