Confirmed Harrison Armstrong recalled by Everton.

[Meldrew's Ghost]

Someone who could rotate better with Dobbin was a priority.

People wanted another striker, and that's what they got. I didn't particularly think it was needed but hey ho. People love getting new strikers.

Midfield was a priority, there's not really many like for like replacements for Armstrong that are competent in the Championship that we'd actually be able to afford because he's got a good all-round skillset. So we've got a player in Moran who is decent with the ball, as that's what we'd be missing more from Armstrong's game, than his defensive side.

If we accept as a given that our manager is wedded to this formation, then surely some replacement for Armstrong, to play alongside Whiteman, had to be the top priority?

I've been saying for months that we are a team of attacking moments, often through Dobbin and/or Devine, that sit on a platform of solid defence. We don't dominate sides for any length of time. Since Armstrong's injury and subsequent return to Everton, it feels like those moments have been getting fewer and fewer, and we are over-reliant on Devine linking up with his pal.

We are struggling to get the ball to Dobbin in those pockets of space where he is so dangerous, and I've not seen enough of Lang to be sure that he will be more effective given our low level of creativity.

For me, the biggest challenge is getting to ball to Dobbin /Lang more frequently. We needed a more creative alternative to McCann. Last night we managed only two attempts at goal in nearly 100 minutes against a struggling Rovers side (I'm not counting the 2 set piece crosses that inadvertently hit the woodwork). There's little point prioritising a rotational option to Dobbin if we can't get the ball to them.

 

[ThomasPNE]

I'd love to know what our points per game with and without Armstrong is for this season; reckon it'd be pretty striking.

Just to answer the original question,
Our points per game when Armstrong was involved was 1.5 when he wasn’t the points per game was 1.375 so not striking but still a difference

 

[monky1234]

If we accept as a given that our manager is wedded to this formation, then surely some replacement for Armstrong, to play alongside Whiteman, had to be the top priority?

I've been saying for months that we are a team of attacking moments, often through Dobbin and/or Devine, that sit on a platform of solid defence. We don't dominate sides for any length of time. Since Armstrong's injury and subsequent return to Everton, it feels like those moments have been getting fewer and fewer, and we are over-reliant on Devine linking up with his pal.

We are struggling to get the ball to Dobbin in those pockets of space where he is so dangerous, and I've not seen enough of Lang to be sure that he will be more effective given our low level of creativity.

For me, the biggest challenge is getting to ball to Dobbin /Lang more frequently. We needed a more creative alternative to McCann. Last night we managed only two attempts at goal in nearly 100 minutes against a struggling Rovers side (I'm not counting the 2 set piece crosses that inadvertently hit the woodwork). There's little point prioritising a rotational option to Dobbin if we can't get the ball to them.

I've made the points about the huge difficulty of trying to replace a skillset like Armstrong.

He was good picking up the ball deep, good turning with the ball and moving up the pitch, and a good linkup in the final third. As well as having good work rate and putting in a shift defensively. We can't replace that with one player. Another deep playmaker means we'd struggle high up the pitch, a ball winner means we still struggle with progressing the ball, and a good linkup in the final third means we may struggle with the defensive side of the game.

So for me, we needed someone good with the ball, and in the final third. As we've already got McCann who's limited so we don't want another limited player with the ball. Devine can play the box to box Armstrong role and then Moran in the more advanced role. Whether he will be able to do it well or not, we'll see, but those are the issues that come with having a limited budget trying to replace a player like that.

 

[SoccerHQ]

Surely Moran once he returned to BHA at the. end of November, would be training daily, playing in tactics games.
You would have thought he would not have been that far off match fitness, was that not considered when releasing other players and signing him.
Again you would expect PH to be involved at some stage of this process.🤔

I doubt it. He long ceased to be part of their first team plans so imagine he was on holiday all through December and early part of January and was then training with youth team until he fixed a move which is lower intensity than hustle and bustle of week in week out championship.

He wasn't considered by PH at any point last night seemingly to come on and try and change things which was curious considering he used to play for Blackburn.

 

[Wisemen say]

I doubt it. He long ceased to be part of their first team plans so imagine he was on holiday all through December and early part of January and was then training with youth team until he fixed a move which is lower intensity than hustle and bustle of week in week out championship.

He wasn't considered by PH at any point last night seemingly to come on and try and change things which was curious considering he used to play for Blackburn.

So again we've signed a player who is not fit for purpose at the point we signed him.
So we let three players leave, Thors and Mads who could start games if required ,but not suited to the managers formation and tactics. Then Keane who scored immediately on his return to first team action as a substitute.
We've replaced them with Milos Lukovic who after starting for 45 minutes has now been sent to the stands.
Lang who we knew was not fit , returning from his 3rd hamstring injury who has only made substitute appearances and Moran who has played six minutes and in a game against the team with the second worse home record in the division does not get any game time.
Sounds like we've made a brilliant triple signing when we needed all three to be able to influence games from the off.🤔

 

[SoccerHQ]

So again we've signed a player who is not fit for purpose at the point we signed him.
So we let three players leave, Thors and Mads who could start games if required ,but not suited to the managers formation and tactics. Then Keane who scored immediately on his return to first team action as a substitute.
We've replaced them with Milos Lukovic who after starting for 45 minutes has now been sent to the stands.
Lang who we knew was not fit , returning from his 3rd hamstring injury who has only made substitute appearances and Moran who has played six minutes and in a game against the team with the second worse home record in the division does not get any game time.
Sounds like we've made a brilliant triple signing when we needed all three to be able to influence games from the off.🤔

Pretty much.

Moran had feel of last minute sign him or no-one this window. Hope he builds his fitness up to contribute after the March international break but by then the season could once again be over.

And hopefully make some sort of impact in the next three years.

 

[Meldrew's Ghost]

I've made the points about the huge difficulty of trying to replace a skillset like Armstrong.

He was good picking up the ball deep, good turning with the ball and moving up the pitch, and a good linkup in the final third. As well as having good work rate and putting in a shift defensively. We can't replace that with one player. Another deep playmaker means we'd struggle high up the pitch, a ball winner means we still struggle with progressing the ball, and a good linkup in the final third means we may struggle with the defensive side of the game.

So for me, we needed someone good with the ball, and in the final third. As we've already got McCann who's limited so we don't want another limited player with the ball. Devine can play the box to box Armstrong role and then Moran in the more advanced role. Whether he will be able to do it well or not, we'll see, but those are the issues that come with having a limited budget trying to replace a player like that.

Personally, I think that Lang and Moran have been signed as the permanent replacements for Dobbin and Devine with next season in mind. I hope we do see Devine in the Armstrong role, with Moran more advanced, though I'm not sure how soon that will be.

Ultimately though, when Devine and Dobbin leave in the summer, we're still going to have to recruit a good box to box player unless we change the system. I'd prefer to see us revert back to 4-2-3-1, but I'm not convinced that this manager is willing to do that.

 

[baldnobber]

Personally, I think that Lang and Moran have been signed as the permanent replacements for Dobbin and Devine with next season in mind. I hope we do see Devine in the Armstrong role, with Moran more advanced, though I'm not sure how soon that will be.

Ultimately though, when Devine and Dobbin leave in the summer, we're still going to have to recruit a good box to box player unless we change the system. I'd prefer to see us revert back to 4-2-3-1, but I'm not convinced that this manager is willing to do that.

If that's the thought process (which is possible) then what's the point of following this club?
Planning for the next season in the championship in January after getting ourselves in real contention for the play offs?
Its pretty meagre fayre being a North End fan - the only crumb of hope is we might sneak in to the play offs and give ourselves a punchers chance.
At least have a go when we've managed to get ourselves in contention - you recruit for the next four months, not plan the next four years of mid table championship mediocrity.
January was a complete shit show...with funds to strengthen, and players returning from injury and suspension, we've somehow ended up coming out of it with a weaker, unbalanced squad.

 

[Malky]

If that's the thought process (which is possible) then what's the point of following this club?
Planning for the next season in the championship in January after getting ourselves in real contention for the play offs?
Its pretty meagre fayre being a North End fan - the only crumb of hope is we might sneak in to the play offs and give ourselves a punchers chance.
At least have a go when we've managed to get ourselves in contention - you recruit for the next four months, not plan the next four years of mid table championship mediocrity.
January was a complete shit show...with funds to strengthen, and players returning from injury and suspension, we've somehow ended up coming out of it with a weaker, unbalanced squad.

Exactly this. Owners desires met …no January spend or huge future costs due promotion. Players who know they would have to be cleared out should we have been promoted … further employment confirmed. Fans hopes .. dashed again but no one cares about them .. blind them with takeover talk and cheap season ticket offers and they will be back for another “same again” next season. PNE classic situation, sans changer

 

[Meldrew's Ghost]

If that's the thought process (which is possible) then what's the point of following this club?
Planning for the next season in the championship in January after getting ourselves in real contention for the play offs?
Its pretty meagre fayre being a North End fan - the only crumb of hope is we might sneak in to the play offs and give ourselves a punchers chance.
At least have a go when we've managed to get ourselves in contention - you recruit for the next four months, not plan the next four years of mid table championship mediocrity.
January was a complete shit show...with funds to strengthen, and players returning from injury and suspension, we've somehow ended up coming out of it with a weaker, unbalanced squad.

When the manager was asked about possible signings in January, he emphasised that we had to be "the best in our market". In other words we had to get the best that our budget (both for transfer fees and wages) could afford.

It seems that we couldn't afford a box to box replacement for Armstrong - despite assertions that we would have a plan B in place. Maybe our plan B option signed for someone else while we waited for Everton's decision.

PH has obviously wanted Lang for sometime. He would have been cheaper in the summer. Whether the extra fee is worth it depends on how Lang's fitness holds up, the number of starts he has, and an improvement in our goals for return.

I don't think that Moran will displace Devine this season, but will be his permanent replacement next season. I can't see these owners paying £4.5m for anyone. The only rational to signing Lukovic that I can think of is that we are lining him up for a year long loan for next season.

 

[Grand Tour]

When the manager was asked about possible signings in January, he emphasised that we had to be "the best in our market". In other words we had to get the best that our budget (both for transfer fees and wages) could afford.

It seems that we couldn't afford a box to box replacement for Armstrong - despite assertions that we would have a plan B in place. Maybe our plan B option signed for someone else while we waited for Everton's decision.

PH has obviously wanted Lang for sometime. He would have been cheaper in the summer. Whether the extra fee is worth it depends on how Lang's fitness holds up, the number of starts he has, and an improvement in our goals for return.

I don't think that Moran will displace Devine this season, but will be his permanent replacement next season. I can't see these owners paying £4.5m for anyone. The only rational to signing Lukovic that I can think of is that we are lining him up for a year long loan for next season.

Your rationale for the Lukovic signing, was exactly my train of thought too.

 

[Ando60]

Your rationale for the Lukovic signing, was exactly my train of thought too.

Yeah, the fact that Heckingbottom talked about him needing “ strengthening for the Championship “ suggests that he might be here next season as well , maybe a replacement for Osmajic ??

 

[Schemer]

Yeah, the fact that Heckingbottom talked about him needing “ strengthening for the Championship “ suggests that he might be here next season as well , maybe a replacement for Osmajic ??

Trying to think where I'd heard that before. Of course, it was Ryan Lowe, talking about Layton Stewart - who in the end, never was strong enough for the Championship🙄

 

[No Danger]

Trying to think where I'd heard that before. Of course, it was Ryan Lowe, talking about Layton Stewart - who in the end, never was strong enough for the Championship🙄

Sometimes things work out but not always.
Got good service out of Archer and Cannon but Nmecha and Mavididi were too early in their development for us as was probably Liam Delap.
Layton Stewart as you say was never at the races. If he does hang around here let’s hope he falls into the first category.

 

[Wisemen say]

Personally, I think that Lang and Moran have been signed as the permanent replacements for Dobbin and Devine with next season in mind. I hope we do see Devine in the Armstrong role, with Moran more advanced, though I'm not sure how soon that will be.

Ultimately though, when Devine and Dobbin leave in the summer, we're still going to have to recruit a good box to box player unless we change the system. I'd prefer to see us revert back to 4-2-3-1, but I'm not convinced that this manager is willing to do that.

So why can we not try Osmajic and Lang up top and try to let them build a partnership, they combined well when Osmajic scored against Portsmouth.
Devine can then play the Armstrong role and we have Moran as back up until he gains full fitness if that is the reason for not starting him or giving him game time at present.?

 

[Parkin Ate My _]

Every credit to Harrison and his boss Moysie, good luck to the lad, hope it goes well.

 

[OB1]

Deffo needed a new thread

 

[jld74]

Moyes can fuck off for me,
probably cost us the best chance of a promotion.

 

[Warton PNE]

Moyes can fuck off for me,
probably cost us the best chance of a promotion.

God forbid a manager for another club did what’s best for that club!

(Plus, with or without him we wouldn’t have gone up)

 

[SonnyJimPNE]

Moyes can fuck off for me,
probably cost us the best chance of a promotion.

Solid player for us and fresh, progressive manager who only wanted the best for us - which has continued post North End. We fell apart in the play off second half v BWFC but Bolton had a strong squad on the day. Will never drag Moysie - he was a bright spark in North End's recent (ish) history for me.