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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Morse said:
How many managers do you think we may need to go through before you come to the conclusion that the problem is not necessarily the manager, but the person dictating the budget and failing to back them? I very much doubt that Smith was the choice of PH, more likely Ridsdale's "it's Smith or nobody". If I remember correctly PH wanted McBurnie but the IOM wouldn't release the funds.
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I think everyone realises not much will change while the IOM and KR are running things but as in all sport the manager is generally the one who is in the firing line.
I would also say I doubt any manager except maybe a few of the big teams get all there first choice signings and have to make do with lesser signings due to budgets. That is the reality of managing most teams
 
I've said it before but just re-iterating.
Heckingbotham and Mccall are, to me, as good as we will get.

And yes they can be and i do too, criticise sometimes, selections and subs.
But overall and just IMO they are as good a Management Partnership as we could expect to have.
To me, give them proper time - otherwise we are just back to starting ALL over again.
Just my opinion.
 
Morse said:
How many managers do you think we may need to go through before you come to the conclusion that the problem is not necessarily the manager, but the person dictating the budget and failing to back them? I very much doubt that Smith was the choice of PH, more likely Ridsdale's "it's Smith or nobody". If I remember correctly PH wanted McBurnie but the IOM wouldn't release the funds.
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Yawn. Same old crap. Our owners are clearly shit, but it's also true that the manager can be a bit shit at the same time, regardless of backing.

McBurnie coming here wasn't happening. I don't expect the owners to shell out £20k+ a week on wages with our crowds and matchday income. However, Heckingbottom was still given the tools to do better than 2 wins in 14.

He won't be going anywhere though, so we just have to hope his horrendous streaks don't take us down next season.
 
SF said:
Yawn. Same old crap. Our owners are clearly shit, but it's also true that the manager can be a bit shit at the same time, regardless of backing.

McBurnie coming here wasn't happening. I don't expect the owners to shell out £20k+ a week on wages with our crowds and matchday income. However, Heckingbottom was still given the tools to do better than 2 wins in 14.

He won't be going anywhere though, so we just have to hope his horrendous streaks don't take us down next season.
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Has he been given the tools to do better than 52 points from 39 games though?

Easy to pick out a period of bad form but I'd say he's done, as we speak, just about what the majority would expect of the current squad we have.
 
deepdaledreamer said:
I've said it before but just re-iterating.
Heckingbotham and Mccall are, to me, as good as we will get.

And yes they can be and i do too, criticise sometimes, selections and subs.
But overall and just IMO they are as good a Management Partnership as we could expect to have.
To me, give them proper time - otherwise we are just back to starting ALL over again.
Just my opinion.
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How long is "proper time " ?
 
callum-pne said:
Has he been given the tools to do better than 52 points from 39 games though?

Easy to pick out a period of bad form but I'd say he's done, as we speak, just about what the majority would expect of the current squad we have.
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It was more than a period of bad form though, we've been a disgrace since Bristol City away. I guess he can only be judged fully after the full 46 games, but a normal club would have sacked him.
 
SF said:
It was more than a period of bad form though, we've been a disgrace since Bristol City away. I guess he can only be judged fully after the full 46 games, but a normal club would have sacked him.
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But you can't throw that period into the mix without recognising the form from August - January which had us within touching distance of the top two.

That form didn't warrant an extended, improved contract and I'm not sure the form from January to March warranted him being sacked either.

I'd suggest that where we currently sit is probably about right and PH hasn't under performed or over achieved.
 
callum-pne said:
But you can't throw that period into the mix without recognising the form from August - January which had us within touching distance of the top two.

That form didn't warrant an extended, improved contract and I'm not sure the form from January to March warranted him being sacked either.

I'd suggest that where we currently sit is probably about right and PH hasn't under performed or over achieved.
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If a manager doesn't look capable of overachieving at a club like ours, then why persevere though?

Obviously the owners just want to survive, but as fans, the prospect of another year of this crap is depressing.
 
SF said:
It was more than a period of bad form though, we've been a disgrace since Bristol City away. I guess he can only be judged fully after the full 46 games, but a normal club would have sacked him.
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This made me think...a few other clubs have had alarming slides down the table and/or horrific runs of form this season and have stuck with the manager:

Us
Bristol City
Charlton
Stoke
Portsmouth
QPR

So we are far from alone. Is it because generally the consensus at those clubs is that they are moving in the right direction/have shown signs of potential?

As opposed to the likes of:

Swansea
Blackburn
Sheffield United
West Brom
Norwich
Southampton

Who mostly very clearly had the wrong person in charge and needed to change.

I think PH has earned time to turn it around after the first half of the season. The run of form was/is a disaster. Not getting carried away - let's hope we can carry on picking up points following the Stoke result. Another similar horrible run to the end of the season would be indefensible.
 
SF said:
If a manager doesn't look capable of overachieving at a club like ours, then why persevere though?

Obviously the owners just want to survive, but as fans, the prospect of another year of this crap is depressing.
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Precisely.

The big issue I have with Heckingbottom is the lack of any kind of noticeable progress in terms of player skill levels and development, mentality, tactics and patterns of play. In the best part of two seasons you’d expect the kind of manager we need to get us anywhere to have shown something wouldn’t you? “Give him time” people will say. I can’t see any scenario where success will happen under Heckingbottom. He just doesn’t have it.

The main reason people want to keep him appears to be because he’s not as shit as any number of alternatives. Not a reason in my book.

Keep him and things stay the same. Change him and maybe we’ll end up with someone better.
 
deepdaledreamer said:
I've said it before but just re-iterating.
Heckingbotham and Mccall are, to me, as good as we will get.

And yes they can be and i do too, criticise sometimes, selections and subs.
But overall and just IMO they are as good a Management Partnership as we could expect to have.
To me, give them proper time - otherwise we are just back to starting ALL over again.
Just my opinion.
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This.

Not only the best we'll get. But the best we'll get who are prepared to stoically tolerate the budget restrictions.

And while other managers have sulked, they get on with it.

I should despair and despise them for that losing run and the hideous football we had to endure. I have despised many others who have gone through the same.

But for me, they are tolerable in turgid defeat.

A rare quality. One that could bring us stability even when it doesn't bring us wins.

I would love them to repay our patience. They have no bedding in period any more. They need to get on with it.

I feel as desperate for them to succeed as I was for Lowe to fail.
 
simo said:
Precisely.

The big issue I have with Heckingbottom is the lack of any kind of noticeable progress in terms of player skill levels and development, mentality, tactics and patterns of play. In the best part of two seasons you’d expect the kind of manager we need to get us anywhere to have shown something wouldn’t you? “Give him time” people will say. I can’t see any scenario where success will happen under Heckingbottom. He just doesn’t have it.

The main reason people want to keep him appears to be because he’s not as shit as any number of alternatives. Not a reason in my book.

Keep him and things stay the same. Change him and maybe we’ll end up with someone better.
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I'm with you. If you don't see progress in two seasons, then try something new. But our owners, and a large of fans just accept survival. Most of our fans deserve our owners.
 
If as was stated when the new bloke took over that he had two years to find "the right quality of new owners" , don't know what they intended if he didn't, then the club if definitely for sale.

Knowing it's for sale the IOM crew will not be spending on manager replacement especially now they will feel safe on which league we will be in next season.

Probably knowing what our league status will be may help in a sale as the buyer would know what he was getting for his hard earned?
 
They will probably have a sit down at the end of the season and analyse it all.

Hecky has to take some blame for the slump but in fairness to him he can only do with what he is given. Its been said he wanted McBurnie and the lad wanted to come, if he had then we would have been a lot higher up the league but to do it would have cost a lot of money and the board would not sanction it so we were stuck with what we got.

Its all very frustrating and mirrors the Alex Neil era, he wanted Keifor Moore but they wouldn't pay so we missed out and the rest is history.
 
Mitsuya said:
Pol, Gibson, Hughes' form dropping off a cliff

No proactive subs

Lads on the beach

Still persisting with Smith and Potts

Among many other management issues. If/when Amr Zedan is confirmed as owner his first job is to sack Heckingbottom
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Reiterating this from the match thread. It's easy, and almost always justified to bring things back to the inept owners we have but how badly Heckingbottom has handled things this season cannot go unnoticed.
 
You'd like to think a new owner would want to bring his own guys in. PH seems to give zero shits, so maybe it's an indicator something is in the pipeline, although it sounds too good to be true for us. Ridsdale & the Hemmings will fuck it up.

Individual mistakes cost us today but only one team deserved the 3pts.
 
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