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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Durutti said:
I think BBM's appointment at Cardiff would have suited him more as it's easier in league 1 to build a philosophy and style of play.

However I think at this stage, more would be buying into the BBM way. I think a major issue with PNE is there's little to no reason to believe we will be better in 12 or 24 months. It will be the same.
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Our fanbase would hate the BBM way of playing. Not to sound like Doyler, but with the amounts of complaints about sideways and backwards or giving it too much to the keeper, or just keeping possession without goals coming from it, that’s what BBM’s entire philosophy is based around.

Some fans would be able to see the purpose behind it, but a vocal group of the “play 442 and get it forward like we used to” fans would never take to it and always make that clear. You only need to look at when Alex had to change tactics because of all the injuries and how many fans said we needed to go with two up front to score goals!!!
 
monky1234 said:
Ouch. Still shows the issue he has with too many draws though, with his record with the no1 GK.

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In fairness to Heckingbottom, he has been desperately unlucky to have his first choice keeper out for 19 games in two seasons.

1.43ppg when he has his number 1 is actually quite impressive. Equates to 65 points which would have us finishing top 10 in most Championships seasons.
 
OB1 said:
Our fanbase would hate the BBM way of playing. Not to sound like Doyler, but with the amounts of complaints about sideways and backwards or giving it too much to the keeper, or just keeping possession without goals coming from it, that’s what BBM’s entire philosophy is based around.

Some fans would be able to see the purpose behind it, but a vocal group of the “play 442 and get it forward like we used to” fans would never take to it and always make that clear. You only need to look at when Alex had to change tactics because of all the injuries and how many fans said we needed to go with two up front to score goals!!!
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Perhaps, but that needs to be discussed at length and decided upon. It may be worth looking at the stylistic qualities of promotion gaining sides and deciding the best route

And sticking to that philosophy over a period of time. That's the key bit. Signing players for one style then changing to another doesn't work
 
OB1 said:
Our fanbase would hate the BBM way of playing. Not to sound like Doyler, but with the amounts of complaints about sideways and backwards or giving it too much to the keeper, or just keeping possession without goals coming from it, that’s what BBM’s entire philosophy is based around.

Some fans would be able to see the purpose behind it, but a vocal group of the “play 442 and get it forward like we used to” fans would never take to it and always make that clear. You only need to look at when Alex had to change tactics because of all the injuries and how many fans said we needed to go with two up front to score goals!!!
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You say this but then you'd absolutely hate the daddy of them all (outside of the Prem) Russell Martin if he rocked up.

I'm not suggesting a 442 Hoof but something - at our level - aiming towards Klopps 433 would be my preferred formation.
 
Jack Daniels said:
You say this but then you'd absolutely hate the daddy of them all (outside of the Prem) Russell Martin if he rocked up.

I'm not suggesting a 442 Hoof but something - at our level - aiming towards Klopps 433 would be my preferred formation.
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I wasn’t actually referring to you. There’s a section of our fanbase that think football is still the same as it was in the 70s and base their opinions on how similar it is now.

Martin takes possession ball to a stupid level, prioritising it over everything else including chances. I would prefer an Alex Neil/Kim Hellberg style of play, revolving around discipline and high pressure personally
 
OB1 said:
I wasn’t actually referring to you. There’s a section of our fanbase that think football is still the same as it was in the 70s and base their opinions on how similar it is now.

Martin takes possession ball to a stupid level, prioritising it over everything else including chances. I would prefer an Alex Neil/Kim Hellberg style of play, revolving around discipline and high pressure personally
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Yeah, I know it wasn't referenced to myself personally. I rarely shout on the footy these days, pointless stood on Row 38. 😂

Agree with your Neil / Hellberg point.
 
IanBogie9 said:
Lowe was pretty good when Cameron Archer and Tom Cannon were playing.

It seems good players win matches.
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I think the notion of preferred formations is not really something we need to get too bogged down in. Simply put, we don't have the quality of player to go out with a 'this is how we play, let them worry about us' sort of mentality.

Formation/style of play of secondary to the wants of most fans, which is to turn up and win the game.

Take a manager who chops and changes his sides/formations week to week. If he wins games he's a tactical genius. If he loses 2-3 games he 'doesnt know his best team.' Criticism often fired at Alex Neil when things went poorly.

Now take a manager who sticks rigidly to a formation. If he wins he has 'instilled great philosophy and awareness in the players.' If he loses 2-3 games he 'has no plan B'. This is where we are at with PH at the moment. Even if he is a little more flexible than some fans suggest.

Both of these guys have proven in the past, and AN currently, that with proper backing they can get a side promoted out of this division. I find it difficult to get too excited about a potential new manager with the current lack of available funding.

Christ even Lowe was getting plaudits for sticking 7 behind the ball and hoping the opposition miss sitters when we had that good start. People are rating Parkinson at Wrexham now he can buy the league, apparently he's always been a great manager.
 
Lee Trundle said:
I think the notion of preferred formations is not really something we need to get too bogged down in. Simply put, we don't have the quality of player to go out with a 'this is how we play, let them worry about us' sort of mentality.

Formation/style of play of secondary to the wants of most fans, which is to turn up and win the game.

Take a manager who chops and changes his sides/formations week to week. If he wins games he's a tactical genius. If he loses 2-3 games he 'doesnt know his best team.' Criticism often fired at Alex Neil when things went poorly.

Now take a manager who sticks rigidly to a formation. If he wins he has 'instilled great philosophy and awareness in the players.' If he loses 2-3 games he 'has no plan B'. This is where we are at with PH at the moment. Even if he is a little more flexible than some fans suggest.

Both of these guys have proven in the past, and AN currently, that with proper backing they can get a side promoted out of this division. I find it difficult to get too excited about a potential new manager with the current lack of available funding.

Christ even Lowe was getting plaudits for sticking 7 behind the ball and hoping the opposition miss sitters when we had that good start. People are rating Parkinson at Wrexham now he can buy the league, apparently he's always been a great manager.
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This is why utimately tactics don't matter so much to me as the club itself being run effectively. There's lots of ways to win and there's always ways to get beaten. It's like a way more complex rock-paper-scissors. Certain tactical styles beat other tactical styles. There's no one true way.

To be able to compete for promotion, I just don't think we have the resources under our current ownership. This is why I think fan expectation is a little ridiculous no matter who our manager is because folks will always want the manager sacked as they're not able to get the results to make people happy. The football will always be crap if you can't afford better players. Being midtable, as we are now, is the best we can hope for with what we've had available. To improve, we need good players we can sell. Whatever people think of Heckingbottom, I think he at least operates correctly for longer term success with the current budgetary restrictions in place as he's building a squad with value again which we could potentially sell on in the future in order to have a bigger budget. I don't even think there's any guarantees that a new manager will get that. Even with the change in ownership, I still think we need to operate like this.
 
PNE04 said:
In fairness to Heckingbottom, he has been desperately unlucky to have his first choice keeper out for 19 games in two seasons.

1.43ppg when he has his number 1 is actually quite impressive. Equates to 65 points which would have us finishing top 10 in most Championships seasons.
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Missing goalkeepers and also been missing Osmajic due to his daft suspensions. He's had a fair bit of bad luck go his way
 
IanBogie9 said:
Lowe was pretty good when Cameron Archer and Tom Cannon were playing.

It seems good players win matches.
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I think you’ve cracked it.

We (me included) moan a lot about formations, but if your players are amongst the best in the division they’ll win games no matter what areas of the pitch you tell them they should be running about in.

Better players are just better at football. They control the ball better, move with it better, read the game better, shoot better, they don’t make shit passes to nobody etc etc.

The formation is probably <10% of what decides the game.
 
Lee Trundle said:
I think the notion of preferred formations is not really something we need to get too bogged down in. .
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See, I'd disagree quite strongly with that. Sometimes it's literally the basic mathematics of men behind the ball and distance from goal that some shapes (back 5 formations, I'm looking at you) that do dictate game style for clubs.

We do have the players to impose a style and system that can suit us: IF we decide on that style through a proper DOF and IF we carry it out over a long period, specifically recruiting for it. We don't have anything now as we rebuild our squad every year with loans being the key feature.

As an example, I would have absolutely no qualms about a team of fast, massive athletes sprinkled with the likes of a Devine and a Dobbin. A strategy like that would see us compete with far bigger boys with a good gust behind us but we don't really look at stuff with an eye of 'how do we close the gap?'. It's mind boggling that if you asked Ridsdale how he plans to do that he would just say 'we can't'.

We can. Luton did it but it took a long period of development. No fluke that. Ipswich had a proper style first time round.

All Zedan needs is a proper smart cunt alongside him and trust me when I say there are fucking loads of them across the EFL working at clubs with clear philosophies.
 
Gordon Bennett said:
We (me included) moan a lot about formations, but if your players are amongst the best in the division they’ll win games no matter what areas of the pitch you tell them they should be running about in.

Better players are just better at football. They control the ball better, move with it better, read the game better, shoot better, they don’t make shit passes to nobody etc etc.

The formation is probably <10% of what decides the game.
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Look at Southampton under Will Still playing a back 5 compared to now playing a back 4. Same players vastly different performances and results
 
SF said:
Can we finally look abroad for once? British managers are dog shit.
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The British manager at Coventry has done alright this year, and plenty sniggered when he was appointed.

We’re never going to appoint a manager with a perfect record, as with the Lampard example sometimes it’s just about the right fit.. regardless of the history.

Heck may go on to better things elsewhere, but it’s not working here for him.

That said, I’d also be all for a foreign manager next purely for something different.
 
MrBoomBoom said:
Why are we even referring to him as Saudi? He was born in California and talks with a full on American accent.
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He’s described as “a US-born Saudi businessman” and I’ve read he was born in Los Angeles in 1974 while his parents were there studying at USC.

So he’s very much a Saudi Arab through and through, who happened to be born in America.
 
SF89 said:
Look at Southampton under Will Still playing a back 5 compared to now playing a back 4. Same players vastly different performances and results
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With Fellows going from village idiot to star player just by shifting him out of our favourite position: wing cunting back.
 
SF89 said:
Look at Southampton under Will Still playing a back 5 compared to now playing a back 4. Same players vastly different performances and results
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They were playing well, as they were creating plenty of chances, but they couldn't score.

But FWIW, no team that's one of the best teams in the league on paper and has one of the bigger budgets should really bother playing with a back 3/5. It's a waste. Especially when you've actually got the players to be playing a typical back four.
 
monky1234 said:
They were playing well, as they were creating plenty of chances, but they couldn't score.

But FWIW, no team that's one of the best teams in the league on paper and has one of the bigger budgets should really bother playing with a back 3/5. It's a waste. Especially when you've actually got the players to be playing a typical back four.
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If you run the numbers over the last few years, it's rarer for any team to achieve promotion playing it. Luton under Edwards, Sheff Utd under Heck being notable exceptions. Generally it will let you float in the division.

It's the floater formation. 💩
 
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