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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Didn't we spend quite a long time rotating Davis in and out with Lucketti, alongside Mawene? Seems like a parallel, not a point of difference.

(Offiah is clearly our best defender and should be starting every game anyway)
 
Bodney Rewes said:
The thing for me when it comes to discussions on the quality of football is that I think the football has been poor at North End throughout the 2020s. I think the football we were playing in the first half of this season is among the best football we've been playing in the 2020s. Obviously we can and should do better but I don't think it's a quick fix. I think it takes time because a good squad needs to be built and that takes seasons to do with our budget. It says a lot that losing both Iversen and Armstrong can have such a dramatic impact on our season. Heckingbottom will carry the blame for the poor form but when have our previous managers had to contend with losing their first team goalkeeper for a substantial period of the season not once but twice? It was always bound to have an effect. Ultimately we need a better squad to get the wins that makes the football seem more entertaining.

In terms of scraping together points to avoid relegation, we're 13 points off relegation. We're well above the drop zone.

With regard to his tactical flexibility, on the one part he gets an unfair reputation in this regard because he has tried a bunch of different formations throughout the season. The core is built upon the 5-3-2 we play but there have been many times where he has changed shape to try and change the game. Just recently against West Brom, he switched to a 4-4-2. On the other part, there are limitations within our squad that limits our ability to change tactics. I always use this example but a target man is a classic example of how to change a game. You go from playing it on the ground without them to playing it long and direct with them. In his first season, we didn't have a proper target man available to change the game so we were stuck following similar patterns of attack (Osmajic and Riis are both too similar as attackers). In this season, we gained Smith but Smith is ultimately too slow and limited to have an impact on the game. Without him, Osmajic and Jebbison are a bit too similar as attackers. One difference this season has been Dobbin whose tight control and ability to dribble has given us a different option. I think Lang was meant to be an alternative to him but we lost him to injury. As such, we're reliant on Dobbin and whoever is partnering him in being able to unlock chances. This is why improving the general utility of the squad is important because it gives us different options to throw on to change the nature of the game. In my view (which is albeit a bit simplified) we need more dribblers and physical presences in attack. We need players with tight control or who can muscle their way into creating space.

With regards to making improvements in players, there's a few players I can pick out. Devine, Dobbin and Jebbison are all having their best ever seasons. I think it's noticeable how Jebbison has improved since his initial showings. Like a lot of our squad he's got his limitations but he's better at keeping a hold of the ball than he was at the beginning of the season. With Devine and Dobbin, their quality was clear from the outset but the fact this is their most productive seasons, surely that's down to the way they're being used? Offiah I think has improved. He looked shaky at first but he's quickly grown in confidence and looks incredibly assured on the ball. I think Moran has been getting better with each appearance. He's still got some work to do but the signs are there that he's a decent signing. Many people on here have remarked that this is Whiteman's best season in years. Storey I think looks the best he's been at the club under Heckingbottom when compared to the previous managers. Some players are largely as good as they were like Osmajic, Hughes and McCann. Even if we look at someone like Small who appears to have regressed a bit since the beginning of the season, it's worth remembering that he's only 21 and this is his first season at this level. I think even Charlton fans were saying about him that he blows hot and cold. The only player I can say has regressed is Gibson but even then Hecky signed Gibson so his best football with us was under Heckingbottom anyway.
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Interesting read, but I’m non the wiser whether you’re Heckingbottom out or in.For the avoidance of doubt I’m 💯 Heckingbottom out.His style of football is WITHOUT A MIDFIELD and outdated and contradictory to strengths of the players the club has recruited.It’s not progress enough to play players out of position and then play them in their position and then claim to be the reason for that player’s improvement
 
Promotion 26 said:
Interesting read, but I’m non the wiser whether you’re Heckingbottom out or in.For the avoidance of doubt I’m 💯 Heckingbottom out.His style of football is WITHOUT A MIDFIELD and outdated and contradictory to strengths of the players the club has recruited.It’s not progress enough to play players out of position and then play them in their position and then claim to be the reason for that player’s improvement
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Its almost as other things don't have to be so black and white and someone can make a coherent and detailed argument for both sides of the argument. Not everybody needs to be so firmly on one side.

Btw Alfie Devine and Ben Whiteman are having pretty decent seasons (20 goal contributions combined) considering we supposedly don't play with a midfield.
 
Promotion 26 said:
Interesting read, but I’m non the wiser whether you’re Heckingbottom out or in.For the avoidance of doubt I’m 💯 Heckingbottom out.His style of football is WITHOUT A MIDFIELD and outdated and contradictory to strengths of the players the club has recruited.It’s not progress enough to play players out of position and then play them in their position and then claim to be the reason for that player’s improvement
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It’s statements like this that make it impossible to actually discuss a manager’s flaws. Because you can take time outlining a manager’s issues, then someone comes along with a daft comment like this and renders the whole debate moot.

As @Heck Tuah has said, Devine and Whiteman have thrived this season, as has Dobbin who couldn’t have done anything without a midfield, so it’s just a silly criticism really isn’t it. Especially given the number of criticisms that are very validly aimed at the manager

Additionally, outside of Thierry Small and occasionally Alfie Devine, who has he played out of position? Hughes at LWB for two games? Offiah at RWB maybe, but even then it’s only rarely since about September
 
OB1 said:
It’s statements like this that make it impossible to actually discuss a manager’s flaws. Because you can take time outlining a manager’s issues, then someone comes along with a daft comment like this and renders the whole debate moot.

As @Heck Tuah has said, Devine and Whiteman have thrived this season, as has Dobbin who couldn’t have done anything without a midfield, so it’s just a silly criticism really isn’t it. Especially given the number of criticisms that are very validly aimed at the manager

Additionally, outside of Thierry Small and occasionally Alfie Devine, who has he played out of position? Hughes at LWB for two games? Offiah at RWB maybe, but even then it’s only rarely since about September
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Suppose Jebbison at RW vs Oxford was an interesting one but that's just being picky as it wasn't for long. Nowhere near as bad as Lowe putting Osmajic in RWB though.

Do agree though people have complained about the midfield all season when it's been one of the best parts of the team when key players are fit.
 
Jack78978 said:
Suppose Jebbison at RW vs Oxford was an interesting one but that's just being picky as it wasn't for long. Nowhere near as bad as Lowe putting Osmajic in RWB though.

Do agree though people have complained about the midfield all season when it's been one of the best parts of the team when key players are fit.
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The Jebbison one would’ve made a bit of sense on the face of it. Pace and power, try and overpower their LB who was tiny. However, it had two issues. Firstly we had Small on the bench who would’ve been a much better option. Secondly we made the change in the first half which completely telegraphed what we wanted to do, and Oxford subbed the LB off at half time before we had chance to try and exploit it
 
OB1 said:
The Jebbison one would’ve made a bit of sense on the face of it. Pace and power, try and overpower their LB who was tiny. However, it had two issues. Firstly we had Small on the bench who would’ve been a much better option. Secondly we made the change in the first half which completely telegraphed what we wanted to do, and Oxford subbed the LB off at half time before we had chance to try and exploit it
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Yeah I remember being frustrated with how Small wasn't brought on, albeit I was a fair few Guinness down.

If Heckingbottom does get sacked and somebody else is brought in I hope Small hasn't regressed too far. First action would be to put him at RW in my opinion, with Offiah behind him.
 
OB1 said:
It’s statements like this that make it impossible to actually discuss a manager’s flaws. Because you can take time outlining a manager’s issues, then someone comes along with a daft comment like this and renders the whole debate moot.

As @Heck Tuah has said, Devine and Whiteman have thrived this season, as has Dobbin who couldn’t have done anything without a midfield, so it’s just a silly criticism really isn’t it. Especially given the number of criticisms that are very validly aimed at the manager

Additionally, outside of Thierry Small and occasionally Alfie Devine, who has he played out of position? Hughes at LWB for two games? Offiah at RWB maybe, but even then it’s only rarely since about September
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Yeah his style of football is very much trying to play out from the back so very different to playing ‘without a midfield.’ The main issue for me is the intensity we move the football and playing with wing backs doesn’t really get us the width that can win games against a low block.

We are also very similar to arsenal in the fact when we go 1-0 up our aim is to hold onto tha lead rather than go for the second. We have drawn 9 times after taking the lead. We also lost a lot of leads last season.
 
RibbletonWhite2.0 said:
Yeah his style of football is very much trying to play out from the back so very different to playing ‘without a midfield.’ The main issue for me is the intensity we move the football and playing with wing backs doesn’t really get us the width that can win games against a low block.

We are also very similar to arsenal in the fact when we go 1-0 up our aim is to hold onto tha lead rather than go for the second. We have drawn 9 times after taking the lead. We also lost a lot of leads last season.
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and we've also lost a lot of games
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Durutti said:
Really? Are we falling for this?

It's essentially 'me and Paul can't do any more with what we've been given'

If PNE fans are lapping that up, I'm in the wrong place. I need to go.

Is the Lincoln manager making similar points?

No. We know the division is hard. What are you as an assistant manager, Paul as a manager and Peter as a whatever the fuck the old cunt is going to do differently to ensure we thrive in that difficult environment? What are we as a club working on to ensure we flourish like Ipswich and Luton and countless others had in the past and now?

If you don't know, what the actual fuck are you doing here at a potentially massive club?
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Perhaps we might give the manager time to build something - like Lincoln City have done.
 
Damp Cloth said:
Perhaps we might give the manager time to build something - like Lincoln City have done.
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Well, we can give the manager more time but if we aren't doing any of the other positive Lincoln things (and we aren't) then it's probably going to continue the same way it has this season.

Worth a listen. Definitely not just about 'giving the manager time' and more about establishing a culture for your coaches to succeed without spending much money.



I don't get the way everyone on here was unanimous Lowe needed to go but quite a few don't feel the same with a vastly inferior points per game, win percentage and league positions from the current guy.
 
Build what? Where is the progress? Style of play? Performances Opportunities for young players? Etc...Let's face it PH was a safe per of hands and the club got what it wanted.
Its not about results or poor end of season finish it's the lack of seeing something being built for the future that kills you
 
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