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Smith Vs Evans

Smith Vs Evans

monky1234 said:
Only really him and a McCann whose first touch I think often let's them down. Relatively speaking to the level we're at of course and the positions they're in.
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I think Jebbison's does too although the frustrating thing with him is that he'll often try and take 20 touches to control it rather than just accepting his first couple touches and moving on
 
Bodney Rewes said:
I think Jebbison's does too although the frustrating thing with him is that he'll often try and take 20 touches to control it rather than just accepting his first couple touches and moving on
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I don't think his first touch is that bad. Obviously most of the players will have moments of it, but I'm more thinking of those who do it poorly quite often on balls where it's not really difficult ones they're receiving and not under heavy pressure.

But in the case of Smith as a target man, you kind of need their first touch to be good so that they can be used to bring players into play in build up too and not just as a lump up to his head guy. Jebbison has been able to do that better so far.
 
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norky84 said:
I honestly think Hecky wanted Smith to be an impact sub for us. Come on for last 30 minutes and be a physical presence in both areas if needed.

As well as bringing in someone else like Gudjohnsen, Heggebo, McBurnie, Cannon etc. And that failure has ultimately cost us points.

However, as much as I don't think Smith is good enough to be a regular starter in the Championship, he is a miles better option than Evans would have been. Evans had failed to score a goal for us in over 2 years!
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Spot on, he was signed as a squad player, to offer something a bit different.
 
Doyler said:
Where have I said this? Because my view is the opposite - that he serves a purpose, but wouldn’t be a regular starter for any team with genuine Top 6 ambitions.

I also don’t have a hard on for old school targetmen, but when you have Lindsay and Storey in your back three, it’s wise to have someone up top who can deal with a long ball.

I’ll defend anyone subject to tinpot straw man analysis, not just old school targetmen.
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I'd say any top half team, really, but in essence, we agree. As a bench option, I'm fairly happy with him, as a starter, he boils my piss a bit.
 
We always fail to deliver on strikers. We have needed a proven striker for 3 years and have dillied and dallied so ultimately failed to land one.

Jebbo and Dobbin are only loanees so don't count in the argument. Smith is a complete waste of a number, he is worse than Evans, but sadly both PH and PR rate him, why well PR likes him because he was FREE, don't know what PH thinks.

He was so bullied by the rovers CH who was young and making his debut, PH said that Smith won every header, really? if so what did he do constructively with those headers, did any reach our players? no didn't think so.

I like PH and what he has done at the club so far but January is a huge window for us, I would like to see THOR, MADS, CORNELL & KEANE all moved on at least, none of them can cut it at this level.
 
Archie LEACH said:
We always fail to deliver on strikers. We have needed a proven striker for 3 years and have dillied and dallied so ultimately failed to land one.

Jebbo and Dobbin are only loanees so don't count in the argument. Smith is a complete waste of a number, he is worse than Evans, but sadly both PH and PR rate him, why well PR likes him because he was FREE, don't know what PH thinks.

He was so bullied by the rovers CH who was young and making his debut, PH said that Smith won every header, really? if so what did he do constructively with those headers, did any reach our players? no didn't think so.

I like PH and what he has done at the club so far but January is a huge window for us, I would like to see THOR, MADS, CORNELL & KEANE all moved on at least, none of them can cut it at this level.
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We have struggled in the striker department for almost as long as I can remember but it shouldn't be forgotten that we would not be in this position were it not for Osmajics actions. We would be discussing who should play alongside him instead of who can carry his place. For me, Osmajic and Smith, Osmajic and Dobbin... Osmajic and Devine all get us points the problem is take him out and we are missing that contribution.
Would Smith have started vs the bastards on Friday if Osmajic had not done what he did? No chance. Would we have had a better chance of winning with Osmajic up top? Definitely.
 
Smith has actually been better than I thought but I'd love to know how many games he started at Sheff Weds in 23/24 when they were in the bottom three for 99% of the season. I bet he's probably started more already here as he was rotating with Josh Windass in those times.

Got to be honest if Jebbison is really serious about a top level career he should be embarrassed he is starting so many games on the bench behind Smith, what on earth is up with his fitness?!

The plan clearly on the final day of the August window clearly wasn't for Smith to be first choice but you miss out on targets and Osmajic gets another long ban and this is what happens.
 
His reaction when the ball hit the post from Small’s shot was shocking, it was almost like he was surprised he should be trying to do something with the rebound.

Next time Ridsdale brags about this free signing he needs to be pushed further. He's still better than Evans though.
 
SoccerHQ said:
Smith has actually been better than I thought but I'd love to know how many games he started at Sheff Weds in 23/24 when they were in the bottom three for 99% of the season. I bet he's probably started more already here as he was rotating with Josh Windass in those times.

Got to be honest if Jebbison is really serious about a top level career he should be embarrassed he is starting so many games on the bench behind Smith, what on earth is up with his fitness?!

The plan clearly on the final day of the August window clearly wasn't for Smith to be first choice but you miss out on targets and Osmajic gets another long ban and this is what happens.
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He started 11 in the league that season. Started 16 for them last season. On 9 starts for us so far.
 
Honestly this hate boner people have for Smith is weird.

Some of the things he's criticised for make me wonder what people thought we were signing when he joined. "He's slow", yes, but he never has been and never will be a quick player. His job is to stand at the top end and either hold the ball up or win headers. Crucially though, what do you expect him to do about it? Pure pace is just one of those things you can't do much about.

Then there's the outright fabrications. "He doesn't win enough headers", he consistently does, the data often backs this up.

Then there's often the lack of attempt to understand the bigger picture. "Yes he wins headers, but they never find a teammate". Ariel duels for a striker are inherently harder than for a defender. A defender's job when boiled down to its basics are to get the ball away from goal, they don't even necessarily need to win the header as long as they've managed to stop the ball heading their direction. A striker either has to guide it towards goal or to a teammate, much smaller targets than 'away from goal', often with a defender climbing all over them. Often the question you should be asking is 'where are the teammates picking up the second balls?'. That is a system problem rather than a personnel problem.

This is before we even acknowledge the small things he contributes but never get talked about, like some of his defensive work.

Then there's the bigger picture in terms of who is available. It's been said so many times on here but I don't think anyone here, including Heckingbottom, was expecting to start him in as many games as he has been. The question is 'what do you expect him to have done differently?'. Can't play Milly, he's got himself suspended. Can't play Jebbison all the time, clearly struggling with fitness. Keane? Just back from injury and how many people here honestly think Keane is good enough? Dobbin? He already plays every game and can't last a full 90. Beyond that it's playing children who aren't ready or shoehorning people into a role they've never played.

I am aware of Smith's limitations and I do think there are players who can do what he does more effectively out there (whether the club would play such players is another conversation), but I'm getting increasingly bored of logging into this forum and after every game seeing someone race to post 'I hate Michael Smith' without saying anything constructive, grounded in reality or offering any sort of alternative.
 
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Jürgen Krapp said:
Honestly this hate boner people have for Smith is weird.

Some of the things he's criticised for make me wonder what people thought we were signing when he joined. "He's slow", yes, but he never has been and never will be a quick player. His job is to stand at the top end and either hold the ball up or win headers. Crucially though, what do you expect him to do about it? Pure pace is just one of those things you can't do much about.

Then there's the outright fabrications. "He doesn't win enough headers", he consistently does, the data often backs this up.

Then there's often the lack of attempt to understand the bigger picture. "Yes he wins headers, but they never find a teammate". Ariel duels for a striker are inherently harder than for a defender. A defender's job when boiled down to its basics are to get the ball away from goal, they don't even necessarily need to win the header as long as they've managed to stop the ball heading their direction. A striker either has to guide it towards goal or to a teammate, much smaller targets than 'away from goal', often with a defender climbing all over them. Often the question you should be asking is 'where are the teammates picking up the second balls?'. That is a system problem rather than a personnel problem.

This is before we even acknowledge the small things he contributes but never get talked about, like some of his defensive work.

Then there's the bigger picture in terms of who is available. It's been said so many times on here but I don't think anyone here, including Heckingbottom, was expecting to start him in as many games as he has been. The question is 'what do you expect him to have done differently?'. Can't play Milly, he's got himself suspended. Can't play Jebbison all the time, clearly struggling with fitness. Keane? Just back from injury and how many people here honestly think Keane is good enough? Dobbin? He already plays every game and can't last a full 90. Beyond that it's playing children who aren't ready or shoehorning people into a role they've never played.

I am aware of Smith's limitations and I do think there are players who can do what he does more effectively out there (whether the club would play such players is another conversation), but I'm getting increasingly bored of logging into this forum and after every game seeing someone race to post 'I hate Michael Smith' without saying anything constructive, grounded in reality or offering any sort of alternative.
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Fantastic post
 
Jürgen Krapp said:
Honestly this hate boner people have for Smith is weird.

Some of the things he's criticised for make me wonder what people thought we were signing when he joined. "He's slow", yes, but he never has been and never will be a quick player. His job is to stand at the top end and either hold the ball up or win headers. Crucially though, what do you expect him to do about it? Pure pace is just one of those things you can't do much about.

Then there's the outright fabrications. "He doesn't win enough headers", he consistently does, the data often backs this up.

Then there's often the lack of attempt to understand the bigger picture. "Yes he wins headers, but they never find a teammate". Ariel duels for a striker are inherently harder than for a defender. A defender's job when boiled down to its basics are to get the ball away from goal, they don't even necessarily need to win the header as long as they've managed to stop the ball heading their direction. A striker either has to guide it towards goal or to a teammate, much smaller targets than 'away from goal', often with a defender climbing all over them. Often the question you should be asking is 'where are the teammates picking up the second balls?'. That is a system problem rather than a personnel problem.

This is before we even acknowledge the small things he contributes but never get talked about, like some of his defensive work.

Then there's the bigger picture in terms of who is available. It's been said so many times on here but I don't think anyone here, including Heckingbottom, was expecting to start him in as many games as he has been. The question is 'what do you expect him to have done differently?'. Can't play Milly, he's got himself suspended. Can't play Jebbison all the time, clearly struggling with fitness. Keane? Just back from injury and how many people here honestly think Keane is good enough? Dobbin? He already plays every game and can't last a full 90. Beyond that it's playing children who aren't ready or shoehorning people into a role they've never played.

I am aware of Smith's limitations and I do think there are players who can do what he does more effectively out there (whether the club would play such players is another conversation), but I'm getting increasingly bored of logging into this forum and after every game seeing someone race to post 'I hate Michael Smith' without saying anything constructive, grounded in reality or offering any sort of alternative.
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I've said it before but I think some people just don't like target men. If we had Kieffer Moore or Oli McBurnie, there'd be some people calling them donkeys. Moore is a better player than Smith but the main reason Moore has so many goals compared to Smith this season is because Wrexham play exclusively to his strengths. They have one tactic which is built entirely to get the most out of Moore. Smith is a change of tactic option for us. He's someone we play when we want to do things differently.

I saw on one of the other threads that people were saying we should be playing Keane but it's worth bearing in mind that Smith has scored the same number of goals in the league this season as Keane did last season in less minutes. He's also only one goal behind Osmajic at the moment and one of Osmajic's is a penalty. He's on the same number of goals as Small, Devine, and Jebbison. I don't think he's as good as any of them but I don't think his contribution is being respected enough when really he's a backup player that's having to play more minutes than he should be because of Osmajic's head loss.
 
monky1234 said:
He started 11 in the league that season. Started 16 for them last season. On 9 starts for us so far.
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He's a good guy but that sums it up a bit. Sheff Weds were abysmal for half of 23/24 before Danny Rohl turned up. They were better last season but again more mid table than ever really seriously threatening the top 6.

Yet he will comfortably beat the starting stats here probably by end of January for a side who's been in the top 6 pretty much all season....

One thing I will say. Jebbison is completely deluded if he thinks he has any chance of making the World Cup if he can't get a regular start ahead of Michael Smith. Guy needs to knuckle down and properly get fit so he can start two games within three days.
 
SoccerHQ said:
He's a good guy but that sums it up a bit. Sheff Weds were abysmal for half of 23/24 before Danny Rohl turned up. They were better last season but again more mid table than ever really seriously threatening the top 6.

Yet he will comfortably beat the starting stats here probably by end of January for a side who's been in the top 6 pretty much all season....

One thing I will say. Jebbison is completely deluded if he thinks he has any chance of making the World Cup if he can't get a regular start ahead of Michael Smith. Guy needs to knuckle down and properly get fit so he can start two games within three days.
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Probably less about the two games in a week and more about managing the pair of them for the 7 games in 25 days or so between yesterday and NYD.

Someone mentioned earlier that yesterday probably suited Smith more than Jebbo so if there was a game to leave him out it was that one.
 
SoccerHQ said:
He's a good guy but that sums it up a bit. Sheff Weds were abysmal for half of 23/24 before Danny Rohl turned up. They were better last season but again more mid table than ever really seriously threatening the top 6.

Yet he will comfortably beat the starting stats here probably by end of January for a side who's been in the top 6 pretty much all season....

One thing I will say. Jebbison is completely deluded if he thinks he has any chance of making the World Cup if he can't get a regular start ahead of Michael Smith. Guy needs to knuckle down and properly get fit so he can start two games within three days.
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Don't particularly judge a player based on team results. However he was more than useful for Sheffield Wednesday last season though when they performed above expectation. Where he started 16 games and played a total of 41 matches.

He was signed to be an option, not just a bench player only, but one to start a handful of games and also be an option off the bench. But he's playing more than intended because of the Osmajic ban and not getting in another striker.

Smith started yesterday as Wrexham play a deep line, so Jebbison should start against Coventry. I wouldn't be surprised if Jebbison starts the next 4, or 3 of the next 4, as Smith may play against Oxford, because there's only one midweek game before Milly is back. So long as Jebbison doesn't pick up some niggle that is.
 
The best we saw of Evans was far better than what we've from Smith so far. I'd be impressed if someone could convincingly argue against that. Since his injury Evans was done however.
 
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