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Training ground update

Training ground update

Chartley said:
Sorry if this has been discussed before .. but was just wondering.. is the plan to generate revenue from selling houses and use that to build the training ground? Or are they financially unrelated?
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We were told that was the case but that one wasn't dependent on the other in relation to breaking ground.

However they then transferred ownership on the ground for the training complex to club which makes me think that the club will be paying for it.
 
paddysr said:
We were told that was the case but that one wasn't dependent on the other in relation to breaking ground.

However they then transferred ownership on the ground for the training complex to club which makes me think that the club will be paying for it.
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Could that not also be a tax issue? Here in Germany you pay less tax on a development if you acquire the land and then build than if you have a single project for built on land. Don't know if that applies in the UK.

I'm just thinking that from a business perspective you could keep an eye on cash flow by buying all the land, build some homes, sell them, build some more, sell them and then at the end build the training ground.
 
Chartley said:
Could that not also be a tax issue? Here in Germany you pay less tax on a development if you acquire the land and then build than if you have a single project for built on land. Don't know if that applies in the UK.

I'm just thinking that from a business perspective you could keep an eye on cash flow by buying all the land, build some homes, sell them, build some more, sell them and then at the end build the training ground.
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I don't know enough about how it works for developments and stuff to even hazard a guess. The issue is in that the story changes ever so slightly with every update.
 
Chartley said:
Sorry if this has been discussed before .. but was just wondering.. is the plan to generate revenue from selling houses and use that to build the training ground? Or are they financially unrelated?
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I believe that it is the sale of the land to the house builders that will fund the training ground
 
Pilchard said:
I believe that it is the sale of the land to the house builders that will fund the training ground
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Which I seem to remember took place quite a while ago? It must have actually if the building of houses on said land has commenced. But still nothing happening for the training ground?
 
paddysr said:
How does it work? Do they have to start work on the training complex before planning permission expires or just any aspect of the build?
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Dunno, someone will, but you're probably thinking they'll just dig a hole to say it's started to keep the planning permission valid and then not progress? I wouldn't be surprised. Think it's February next year.
 
Well all I can say is

Planning permission has not stopped Uncle Trevor starting building lots of nice new expensive houses on his Euxton Estate recently
Amazing how fast things ‘can shift’ when he really wants them too

Says a lot for his priorities IMO
 
Pilchard said:
I believe that it is the sale of the land to the house builders that will fund the training ground
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350 houses at £110k per plot, nice little earner. I am sure that rather than "gift" the training ground to the club it has been sold to the club at the market rate £1.5m?
 
PNETOWER1970 said:
In fairness what will a better training ground give us?

The pitches at Springfields are immaculate.

Don't understand what the big deal is!
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The other facilities inside simply aren’t anywhere close to good enough for an established Championship club (supposedly with aspirations of playing higher).

We miss a fair bit of pitch time in the winter most years because we have no indoor pitch.

It must be pretty embarrassing to show new players around Springfields.
 
PNETOWER1970 said:
In fairness what will a better training ground give us?

The pitches at Springfields are immaculate.

Don't understand what the big deal is!
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Better youth facilities as they would move to Springfields
Modern facilities for our 1st team. State of the art gym and indoor pitch. More attractive place to come to work for new players.
 
Had this been an announcement for a development that went wrong ( the Fanzone) we couldn't complain but the nature of the fans involvement makes this a different case

There are many aspects of this debacle where the fans have every right to be livid with Trevor Hemmings.

Comments by John Kay (at the forum and in the paper) and more recently by Peter Ridsdale on various emails I have seen are actually insulting to our intelligence.

This forum and our fan base made a concerted effort to firstly indicate to the club and owner a appeal would be backed publicly and secondarily to ensure the planning committee came out in force to back the appeal at a public ticketed hearing which was unheard of in Preston.

Correspondence prior to and at this publicly held meeting clearly indicated he training facility would be funded by the owner who would then sell housing land to reclaim this money. There was assurances that it would be built first but without the whole plans being accepted wouldn’t be built as the owner wouldn’t fund it otherwise.

Planning consent was gained despite very organised campaign against it.

Since then we have been told or it’s been implied that:

Newts caused a delay and couldn’t be moved until the spring.

It was mentioned we could start the pitches but not the building.

The ground is softer than expected.

Issues with access routes.

Told at a forum that “What would you prefer ten million on a player or ten million on the team”

The club have acquired the training ground land as an “asset!”

All that aside this new line being peddled by the club that “it was clear the housing would need to be sold first”

Is misleading at best or a blatant lie at worst.

So back to my original point the fans involvement in gaining this permission and taking on the residents, the council and the contempt to the fans when we question the lack of progress is disgraceful.

Hemmings is mistrusted by many in Preston with his motives for this development and sadly at the moment this mistrust is warranted.

Two years on,JK and every single person who signed that petition are entitled to an apology and explanation by the club.
 
billymac said:
I am sure that rather than "gift" the training ground to the club it has been sold to the club at the market rate £1.5m?
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Yep, that's what the LEP reported: "The land is now owned by PNE after they brought it from Cleator Manor Limited for £1.5m – that is a company owned by Trevor Hemmings."

Tino said:
Dunno, someone will, but you're probably thinking they'll just dig a hole to say it's started to keep the planning permission valid and then not progress? I wouldn't be surprised. Think it's February next year.
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John Kay is quoted in that LEP article saying "the planning consent for the training ground expires in February 2020", but that seems odd, as planning permission was granted in August 2017, so it should expire 3 years after that (at least according to the decision notice here (PDF)).

February 2017 was when the planning application was first received/validated by the council - but the actual decision was 6 months later.

On what constitutes "beginning work" to keep the planning permission alive, it seems it can be pretty minimal (this is quoted from here):
Development is taken to be begun: in the case of operations at the earliest date on which a material operation is carried out; [...]

A material operation is defined by Section 56 of the Act to mean:
(a) any work of construction in the course of the erection of a building.
(b) any work of demolition of a building.
(c) the digging of a trench, which is to contain the foundations or part of the foundations of a building.
(d) the laying of any underground main or pipe to the foundations or part of the foundation of a building or, any such trench.
(e) any operation in the course of laying out or constructing a road.
(f) any change in the use of any land which constitutes material development.

The courts have acknowledged that this list is not exhaustive [... etc., etc., etc.]
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And when development has "begun" (e.g., a hole has been dug), there's no time limit on when development must be completed (e.g., a gleaming new training facility opens for business).

The main issue (as the budget-conscious club is no doubt aware) is all the pre-conditions need to be satisfied before the expiry date as well - presumably that's why Kay is so concerned about potentially-costly issues like irrigation and drainage - but issues like actually building the thing, not so much.
 
Honestly I think this will eventually occur and we should just be patient. Tin hat and riot shield going on now.

My view:

1. The club has an asset worth 1.5 million pounds. Surely we will make use of it.
2. We have a history of buying cheap young players and then selling them on at a profit. We are all convinced that a decent training facility would help us to develop players and therefore get more money for them when we sell them. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?
3. We believe some players may be put off by Springies, so we end up with less players to choose from. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?

So, to those who are rightly frustrated by the delay, I urge patience. The Club, with the financial support of Uncle Trev, are operating a financially prudent policy. If we are right and that the training ground is a cheaper way to develop players, then I have no doubt they will get it sorted, even if it takes longer than we would like.

I'll get my coat.
 
Chartley said:
Honestly I think this will eventually occur and we should just be patient. Tin hat and riot shield going on now.

My view:

1. The club has an asset worth 1.5 million pounds. Surely we will make use of it.
2. We have a history of buying cheap young players and then selling them on at a profit. We are all convinced that a decent training facility would help us to develop players and therefore get more money for them when we sell them. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?
3. We believe some players may be put off by Springies, so we end up with less players to choose from. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?

So, to those who are rightly frustrated by the delay, I urge patience. The Club, with the financial support of Uncle Trev, are operating a financially prudent policy. If we are right and that the training ground is a cheaper way to develop players, then I have no doubt they will get it sorted, even if it takes longer than we would like.

I'll get my coat.
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This just smacks of Hemmings adoration from someone who can see NO wrong in anything TH does. The fans through the fantastic support JK gathered to help get the planning decision overturned have been smacked right in the face, treated with contempt and USED by TH, no amount of your garbled sycophantic drivel can disprove this.

Why have the temerity to say that the training ground land was to be "gifted" to the club then sell it to the club at "market price" £1.5m (who established the going rate) and that your ambition was to reach the prem asap????

You keep saying the club is run in a prudent way (sell your best players and spend nowt) but with a worth of over £1.2bn his contribution is less than 0.05% of his wealth, it TH wanted to sort the training complex HE COULD and easily, but you along with the other hand wringers tell us all to just hold on a wee bit longer, how long is this fuckin piece of string we are being told to hold on too????

I am sure that if a new stable block was needed, a new golden wheelbarrow for shovelling shit was required, the very best in horse feed and jockeys salaries there would be NO delay.
 
Chartley said:
Honestly I think this will eventually occur and we should just be patient. Tin hat and riot shield going on now.

My view:

1. The club has an asset worth 1.5 million pounds. Surely we will make use of it.
2. We have a history of buying cheap young players and then selling them on at a profit. We are all convinced that a decent training facility would help us to develop players and therefore get more money for them when we sell them. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?
3. We believe some players may be put off by Springies, so we end up with less players to choose from. Do we seriously think the Club has not thought of this?

So, to those who are rightly frustrated by the delay, I urge patience. The Club, with the financial support of Uncle Trev, are operating a financially prudent policy. If we are right and that the training ground is a cheaper way to develop players, then I have no doubt they will get it sorted, even if it takes longer than we would like.

I'll get my coat.
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OK Peter
 
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