Matchday Thread Birmingham v PNE 01/04/24 - KO:3PM - Championship

[NWB]

We're lucky (and simultaneously unlucky) that everyone above us was beaten yesterday, but I can't help feel that it was unfortunately a make or break game.

I usually like to remain optimistic, but I can't see us winning this Saturday either, which potentially opens up an 8 point gap. Though I'd love to be proven wrong! Keep the faith. Hopefully the spirit of the Gentry keep our hopes alive.

 

[Garden Gnome]

Watched on ifollow. We missed Browne. He is the key linking midfield and attack and gives Mads the freedom to perform. Without him Mads was ineffective. But I do blame Our Badges Manager. He did nothing to stop Birmingham's creativity. As with other lower teams he seems to presume if we play our game they will overcome. Without Browne we couldn't.
Does our manager even know our best team and their positions?
I've always thought that the upturn in form from the second half against Bristol was down to the players. Browne particularly. I would rather he were the manager! [perhaps that is why the club are not offering him a new contract yet, or he is refusing to sign one???]
Is there a conflict of opinions in camp? Am I being controversial?

 

[Schemer]

Mawene, Holmes, Whatmough (plays instead of, not in tandem with, Lindsay), Millar when he was eventually brought on, Keane and Mads occupy the same space in the 10 position. Woodburn being on the pitch in a professional football match is also by definition out of position.

My point re: Storey wasn't about today or him per se, it was a general example of how poorly our management team seems to identify strengths and exploit weaknesses in the opposition, despite the statical evidence (which they either ignore or are incapable of interpreting).

A pretty tenuous explanation there and it still doesn't amount to 'half of the 10 outfield players' playing out of position.

Perhaps, as you said during the Kirchner fiasco, the players would prefer to be coached by that managerial mastermind Rooney?😂

 

[MalkySee]

Why would the players or manager not care about promotion. Fine blame the owners and ridsdale but the players? It’s a ridiculous thing to suggest.

The flat performance happened today due to lack of depth in the squad. The players absolutely are giving their all at this football club. But at times they need a bit of help.

If by some miracle we finished up getting promotion, which players out of the current squad would you expect to be starting for North End next season and able to cope at the next level? Its like turkeys looking forward to Christmas.

 

[ShanklyKop]

That starting line up yesterday was never going to win that game, evident after 5 mins. So disappointing. We could barely string more than 2 passes together and Birmingham are not a good side by any stretch of the imagination.

Mawene is not ready for first team action at this level but his inclusion just highlights our lack of quality beyond our best 11.

Browne and Whiteman huge misses. Millar and Storey starting on the bench. It's too much quality to lose from our starting 11 to expect to get a result.

Mads wasn't in the game but we weren't finding him. Lads up front ineffective because we couldn't find them either.

Really bad day at the office.

 

[RibbletonWhite2.0]

If by some miracle we finished up getting promotion, which players out of the current squad would you expect to be starting for North End next season and able to cope at the next level? Its like turkeys looking forward to Christmas.

Not many would be able to cope. I would expect the majority of the first 11 to still be here but quite a few will be relegated to back up players as we bring better players in.

Doesn’t mean the players don’t want promotion though. That for them is the ultimate dream to play in the prem.

 

[Pennyhome]

I was so angry yesterday but having slept on it it makes you wonder how the hell we are where we are with the depth we have in our squad.

Midfield, yesterday, is what caused us the problems, losing players like Browne, whiteman and then, dare I say it, Ledson too was a step too far. Couple that with Mads having a dip in his form its little wonder that the team completely malfunctioned yesterday. We played a completely untried Youth team player who the game completely passed by, too and his replacement was woodburn!

I thought brady had a good game but, like others when it counted, decision making was awful.

Im not one of the Lowe haters but i feel he isnt exempt from at least some criticism either. His complete obsession with the wing back system needs to be thought through with the squad we have. It was never going to work yesterday and that became obvious within the first few minutes of the game.

Still twists and turns to go in this season and with a fair wind blowing, returning players, who knows what can happen.

Keeping within FFP just how can PNE build better squad depth?

Spot on this.

Really doesn’t help when we’re playing the likes of Holmes as a wingback .

Perhaps we will sign a couple in the summer …..

 

[billymac]

I think that the tone for yesterdays performance was set during that truly awful second half on Friday, 3 up and terrible thereafter, we showed no intent to batter Rotherham on Friday when we could have sent a strong message to Birmingham with a 5-6 goal win, giving people games for no great reason is pathetic.

I am not Brady's biggest fan but to have him on the pitch at the same time as Woodburn is like playing with 10 men at best, Mads can conjure up something out of nothing, Woodburn can collect his cameo salary.

Not starting Millar in a must win game was criminal imho, but hey ho another missed opportunity, I hope Ridsdale finds this funny!!!!

 

[deepdaledreamer]

Once it was obvious that the game was by passing young Mawene, which was evident early on, maybe a switch at half time with Brady moving into CM, as an experienced pro, who some have touted in the past for the position anyway, it would have allowed Millar to come on in his favoured left side and early enough to make a difference.
With Millar on Mads would probably have had a better game anyway.

 

[lagerlout]

If Millar is fit for Saturday then he has to start on the right because you can’t really drop Brady and doubt he will be moved to the right.

Last season, whilst playing on the right wing, Brady put a great cross in for Riis to score with a powerful header. This season, Brady slammed a left foot rocket , FROM THE RIGHT WING POSITION, when the ball got returned to him from a corner . ( Man City’s Foden and Mahrez, both left footers, proved that it is possible to play on the RW and make a success of it )

 

[lagerlout]

Once it was obvious that the game was by passing young Mawene, which was evident early on, maybe a switch at half time with Brady moving into CM, as an experienced pro, who some have touted in the past for the position anyway, it would have allowed Millar to come on in his favoured left side and early enough to make a difference.
With Millar on Mads would probably have had a better game anyway.

Deepdale Dreamer, my thoughts exactly !

 

[SoccerHQ]

Once it was obvious that the game was by passing young Mawene, which was evident early on, maybe a switch at half time with Brady moving into CM, as an experienced pro, who some have touted in the past for the position anyway, it would have allowed Millar to come on in his favoured left side and early enough to make a difference.
With Millar on Mads would probably have had a better game anyway.

Yes Millar should've been on at half time. I get perhaps the medical team didn't think he was capable of 90 minutes and Lowe reluctantly has to go along but if on the bench you should always be ready to participate in a half so that would've been a decent sub to make to give him proper time to make an impact at 0-0.

As it happens he came on and they scored 3 minutes later.

 

[MadsFrokjaerJensen]

I was so angry yesterday but having slept on it it makes you wonder how the hell we are where we are with the depth we have in our squad.

Midfield, yesterday, is what caused us the problems, losing players like Browne, whiteman and then, dare I say it, Ledson too was a step too far. Couple that with Mads having a dip in his form its little wonder that the team completely malfunctioned yesterday. We played a completely untried Youth team player who the game completely passed by, too and his replacement was woodburn!

I thought brady had a good game but, like others when it counted, decision making was awful.

Im not one of the Lowe haters but i feel he isnt exempt from at least some criticism either. His complete obsession with the wing back system needs to be thought through with the squad we have. It was never going to work yesterday and that became obvious within the first few minutes of the game.

Still twists and turns to go in this season and with a fair wind blowing, returning players, who knows what can happen.

Keeping within FFP just how can PNE build better squad depth?

The covid year drops off after this season so hopefully we have some room in the budget to improve the squad depth. Firing off Cunningham, Bauer, Woodburn, Evans etc will also free up a lot of room.

 

[MattPNE17]

I was so angry yesterday but having slept on it it makes you wonder how the hell we are where we are with the depth we have in our squad.

Midfield, yesterday, is what caused us the problems, losing players like Browne, whiteman and then, dare I say it, Ledson too was a step too far. Couple that with Mads having a dip in his form its little wonder that the team completely malfunctioned yesterday. We played a completely untried Youth team player who the game completely passed by, too and his replacement was woodburn!

I thought brady had a good game but, like others when it counted, decision making was awful.

Im not one of the Lowe haters but i feel he isnt exempt from at least some criticism either. His complete obsession with the wing back system needs to be thought through with the squad we have. It was never going to work yesterday and that became obvious within the first few minutes of the game.

Still twists and turns to go in this season and with a fair wind blowing, returning players, who knows what can happen.

Keeping within FFP just how can PNE build better squad depth?

Yesterday we were only actually missing 5 players in Browne, Whiteman, Ledson, Potts and Evans - whilst Bauer seems to be available yet unselected - however the problem is that those absentees mostly impact the same area of the pitch:

Browne - CM and RWB
Potts - RWB, RB, RW, CM
Whiteman - CM
Ledson - CM

To be fair, there is an element of misfortune to this which is out of Lowe's control - not many squads could lose 4 senior central midfield options AND your first two picks at RWB without seeing some kind of drop-off.

However, there is a greater issue of squad-building and transfer business.

Over half of our central midfielders double-up as RWB options.
None of the RWB options are natural RWBs.
The RWB we loaned in to compete with Potts was a dud, yet despite cancelling the loan for that RWB we never replaced him.
Our LWBs are natural wingers (Millar, Brady) or CBs (Hughes, Cunningham, Best).
We have a number of CBs who MUST play centrally in a 3 (Lindsay, Whatmough, Bauer) and a number who can play LCB (Hughes, Cunningham, Best) but only one who can play RCB (Storey) - and even he's got question marks over his ability to play there.
We are carrying players like Bauer, Cunningham, Evans and Woodburn who either just aren't good enough anymore, can't get fit/on the pitch or never were/will be good enough.

So, whilst there is bad luck in the number of injuries we've had, the injuries aren't ripping holes in our squad as much as they're just pulling at the gaps that were already there.

Big summer coming up with key players (AGAIN) approaching the last year of their contract and a number of positions requiring far more depth and/or quality.

 

[Ando60]

I was so angry yesterday but having slept on it it makes you wonder how the hell we are where we are with the depth we have in our squad.

Midfield, yesterday, is what caused us the problems, losing players like Browne, whiteman and then, dare I say it, Ledson too was a step too far. Couple that with Mads having a dip in his form its little wonder that the team completely malfunctioned yesterday. We played a completely untried Youth team player who the game completely passed by, too and his replacement was woodburn!

I thought brady had a good game but, like others when it counted, decision making was awful.

Im not one of the Lowe haters but i feel he isnt exempt from at least some criticism either. His complete obsession with the wing back system needs to be thought through with the squad we have. It was never going to work yesterday and that became obvious within the first few minutes of the game.

Still twists and turns to go in this season and with a fair wind blowing, returning players, who knows what can happen.

Keeping within FFP just how can PNE build better squad depth?

That is a very good assessment of the way things are…..

I said pre-match on this thread that Browne, Whiteman and Ledson were big misses.

 

[Bobbage]

Shit game, played out by two shit games, and decided by a single slip/error.

It happens.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

I think that the tone for yesterdays performance was set during that truly awful second half on Friday, 3 up and terrible thereafter, we showed no intent to batter Rotherham on Friday when we could have sent a strong message to Birmingham with a 5-6 goal win, giving people games for no great reason is pathetic.

I am not Brady's biggest fan but to have him on the pitch at the same time as Woodburn is like playing with 10 men at best, Mads can conjure up something out of nothing, Woodburn can collect his cameo salary.

Not starting Millar in a must win game was criminal imho, but hey ho another missed opportunity, I hope Ridsdale finds this funny!!!!

Billy, Millar is coming back from an injury. Of course they would have wanted to start with him, he’s one of our main men. Potts was rushed back too early and broke down, never to be seen since.If the same happened to Millar then we probably wouldn’t see him again this season. I know you love being a cantankerous old b..t..d !!

 

[Yoowell]

Billy, Millar is coming back from an injury. Of course they would have wanted to start with him, he’s one of our main men. Potts was rushed back too early and broke down, never to be seen since.If the same happened to Millar then we probably wouldn’t see him again this season. I know you love being a cantankerous old b..t..d !!

Millar had a ‘knock’ as did Storey…..both non muscular.
It’s a totally different situation to Potts hamstring.

 

[Duncan Iceglide]

That starting line up yesterday was never going to win that game, evident after 5 mins. So disappointing. We could barely string more than 2 passes together and Birmingham are not a good side by any stretch of the imagination.

Mawene is not ready for first team action at this level but his inclusion just highlights our lack of quality beyond our best 11.

Browne and Whiteman huge misses. Millar and Storey starting on the bench. It's too much quality to lose from our starting 11 to expect to get a result.

Mads wasn't in the game but we weren't finding him. Lads up front ineffective because we couldn't find them either.

Really bad day at the office.

Then again after Rotherham more or less everyone thought we’d piss it.

 

[Duncan Iceglide]

Yesterday we were only actually missing 5 players in Browne, Whiteman, Ledson, Potts and Evans - whilst Bauer seems to be available yet unselected - however the problem is that those absentees mostly impact the same area of the pitch:

Browne - CM and RWB
Potts - RWB, RB, RW, CM
Whiteman - CM
Ledson - CM

To be fair, there is an element of misfortune to this which is out of Lowe's control - not many squads could lose 4 senior central midfield options AND your first two picks at RWB without seeing some kind of drop-off.

However, there is a greater issue of squad-building and transfer business.

Over half of our central midfielders double-up as RWB options.
None of the RWB options are natural RWBs.
The RWB we loaned in to compete with Potts was a dud, yet despite cancelling the loan for that RWB we never replaced him.
Our LWBs are natural wingers (Millar, Brady) or CBs (Hughes, Cunningham, Best).
We have a number of CBs who MUST play centrally in a 3 (Lindsay, Whatmough, Bauer) and a number who can play LCB (Hughes, Cunningham, Best) but only one who can play RCB (Storey) - and even he's got question marks over his ability to play there.
We are carrying players like Bauer, Cunningham, Evans and Woodburn who either just aren't good enough anymore, can't get fit/on the pitch or never were/will be good enough.

So, whilst there is bad luck in the number of injuries we've had, the injuries aren't ripping holes in our squad as much as they're just pulling at the gaps that were already there.

Big summer coming up with key players (AGAIN) approaching the last year of their contract and a number of positions requiring far more depth and/or quality.

Forget about Bower. What’s with him?