Billy Davies v The rest

[Shanghairy]

i'd love Davies to come back but I don't think we have a top 6 side.

We have some very good players for this level- I like the spine of the side- hume, coutts, doyle, mccombe, Morgan...... suddenly looks solid through the middle- problem is- two of those are on short term loans, and hume has no strike partner with Mellor out long term. if the loanees go back we have further problems.

going off most of the season we're not great down the flanks........ mayor has no defensive attributes or awareness and still continues to make the wrong decision- being largely greedy and running into brick walls instead of releasing the ball. parry goes missing on the other flank and hasn't really done it for us.

gray looks ok at right back but mclaughlin and smith seem to slow on the left.

I think Billy or whoever comes in has a real job on their hands- we've leaked a lot of goals this year and we're carrying a lot of poor quality players.

We do clearly have problems in the squad- especially in defense- but so do most clubs in this league. There is a handful that have genuine quality (Huddersfield, Sheffield United, Charlton) but most would kill for some of the quality we have, especially in midfield.

Easier said than done, but all they need is organizing and motivating.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Billy will get you results, the stats suggest but don't prove it. He will fall out with the chairman, history suggests but does not prove it.
When Billy was with us previously he showed no interest in the youth and disbanded the reserves whilst nearly getting us to the promised land. In failing to get us there whilst not building for the future, then compounding things by leaving in the way he did with his backroom staff, he left a situation from which we have not recovered. If we employ him again it should be with eyes wide open and under strict controls! This decision is vital, if we continue to make the wrong decisions we might have to settle for less than mediocrity for a decade or two.
Albertan, stats only tell you so much, you always have to look behind them.

No interest in youth you say?

Tell me, who signed an 18/19 year old David Nugent and Simon Whaley of a similar age, to name 2 off the top of my head.

Add Dave Hibbert (19) and Joe Aniyinsah (19/20) to the list, too. Makes not a jot that they didn't make it, KBD signed these young players and gave them a chance in the game at an higher level.

Ever considered that our youth set up at the time containing the likes of Kelvin Langmead, Joe O'Neil, Mark Jackson, Chris McGrail, etc simply were not good enough for Championship footy. History since, as provided by the clubs they have since, in some cases, played for, suggests, nay!, screams out to you, that this is indeed the case.

 

[iamaternenthat_]

A rather eloquent appraisal. But didn't Billy have some time to reflect when he was unemployed after his Derby sacking. And yet he was still up to his old tricks when he got the Forest job. What makes you think it would be different this time? Let's say he loses a few games. It would be so tempting for him to say the team aren't good enough and that we need to spend big to get in the play offs to cover himself. What is it that leads you to believe that he is now a reformed character?

I think we do need to spend- whoever comes in- the squad is pretty weak. There is certainly more that can be gotten out of it than Brown managed but I don't consider it any more top 6 than any of the present top 6 squads......

 

[Shanghairy]

A rather eloquent appraisal. But didn't Billy have some time to reflect when he was unemployed after his Derby sacking. And yet he was still up to his old tricks when he got the Forest job. What makes you think it would be different this time? Let's say he loses a few games. It would be so tempting for him to say the team aren't good enough and that we need to spend big to get in the play offs to cover himself. What is it that leads you to believe that he is now a reformed character?

It's a big if, I admit, but if Ridsdale has been halfway honest with Davies then he will know before taking the job that there is no chance of being backed with big cash.

If Davies repeats the sort of tantrums he has done in the past (and in very different circumstances), then we sack him. Get someone else in. I'd say we're pretty wise to his antics now. The only change we need to worry about in the meantime is that he has somehow lost his managerial golden touch for getting very good results.

 

[the big E]

I'm not trying to make the lad look like he knows nothing. He did that himself. But thank you for your very lucid cotribution. Have you decided who you will side with when Davies falls out with Hemmings/Ridsdale?

What cos i corrected your bullshit statement regarding mears and davis!!

 

[dadnlovinit]

What cos i corrected your bullshit statement regarding mears and davis!!

Sorry to ask again mate but any more news on the Billy Davies front? Just what with added speculation today! I love reading your little snippets of info! Gives me hope that things will come good at the club!!

 

[TSR2]

Agreed that football is a results business, and we all want to see winning football.

But clubs such as ours must have a good youth set-up, as we cannot afford to pay for "the finished article".
If he shows such scant regard for the youth team as he did last time he was here then I would worry about our long term future.

If people are just after a quick fix, then Billy probably is the right man, but if, like Peter Ridsdale talked about, we want to have stability at the club, then personally I couldn't think of anyone worse!
If you think appointing BD would give us stability, we desperately need, then, to use one of yours Alby, you need to give your heads a shake!

Well it is nice to know that our 10 years of Championship football was based on our youth set up,what a load of tosh.
What you need is a good scouting system so you can pick up players like Nugent and Fuller,but that went when Davies went.
Could it be that they got fed up of their hard work finding players being sold off.

 

[kc1968]

It's a big if, I admit, but if Ridsdale has been halfway honest with Davies then he will know before taking the job that there is no chance of being backed with big cash.

If Davies repeats the sort of tantrums he has done in the past (and in very different circumstances), then we sack him. Get someone else in. I'd say we're pretty wise to his antics now. The only change we need to worry about in the meantime is that he has somehow lost his managerial golden touch for getting very good results.

I think you've hit the nub of it. Davies has had a track record of running to the media to say that Chairman promised him this that and the other. He has a clever way of sublimating propaganda into the minds of fans to deflect blame from himself. Will it actually be politically possible for Ridsdale/Hemmings to sack Davies if he starts his old tricks again in the scenario you've outlined?

 

[kc1968]

What cos i corrected your bullshit statement regarding mears and davis!!

No it was because you swallowed a propaganda piece by Billy Davies without being able to see through it.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Billy will say at some point if he gets the job that, "the chairman has moved the goalposts and its only common courtesy that you let me speak to other clubs".

Joking apart My opinion is, if we employ him it will all end in tears. He is unpredictable, he is unstable, he is insecure, he trust no fucker and in any industry you cannot employ a person with those charteristics.

The new chairman when he came in at Derby saw right not just through him but all his cronies as well and sacked the lot of them in within weeks of taking over.

I cannot believe that we want to employ this person, the person most people booed when he came back with other clubs. Even with the best team we've had in over 50 years he still blew it on two occasion West Ham final Leeds 2nd leg play offs.

He's over rated and he's trouble

I cast my boo's at KBD simply because I was totally gutted that PNE allowed KBD to slip through their fingers. You only boo and jeer those that you rate because they can hurt your club be they a player on the field or a manager on the touchline. You never see fans boo shite opposition players or managers, instead we take the piss.

Cast you mind back if you can to around October 2005 and the LEP headlines "Billy - The Goalposts have been moved". This is what set the tone for the eventual departure of KBD from PNE, orchestrated in my view by Shaw simply because it was all about Shaw v KBD which Shaw didn't like as KBD was the more popular of the 2, Shaw's solution?, piss KBD off enough for him to leave. The mistake of KBD was to fall for this and allowing things to become public like the interest off Charlton.

Wouldn't be the 1st time that Shaw acted like this, see Simpson when 2nd in the League back in January 2007 and all Shaw gives him is shite like Soley, Pergl, Ricketts, etc.

I find it quite staggering that anyone can say that KBD is over rated.

Look at his record. For Top 6 finishes at Championship level, it's simply untouchable.

 

[the big E]

No it was because you swallowed a propaganda piece by Billy Davies without being able to see through it.

Yep your right,ive always found it difficult to see through facts!!!!!

 

[Jack Daniels]

I quite vividly remember davies saying on the day he joined derby that he knew his time at pne was over when he was told by a board member that 2 players would be sold during the summer months and he was proved correct when claude davis and tyrone mears were sold within weeks of davies leaving and thats on top of mr shaw selling cresswell to leeds behind the managers back 12mths earlier!!

The day Cresswell left, KBD was at Roper Hall attending a Fans Forum and he was seething about this situation.

Shaw was playing games with Billy imo, trying to force him out by pulling stunts such as this.

 

[kc1968]

Yep your right,ive always found it difficult to see through facts!!!!!

Well it's the facts as you see them. But personally I don't believe a word that guy says in the media. He was always going to blame someone else for "forcing him out" rather than admit that Derby had trebled his wages. Critical reasoning of "the facts" can be quite useful.

 

[Metal]

I'm not trying to make the lad look like he knows nothing. He did that himself. But thank you for your very lucid cotribution. Have you decided who you will side with when Davies falls out with Hemmings/Ridsdale?

That could be an unfair question at this time.

When Davies left under the chairmanship of Shaw, I was mortified, being honest I liked Billy. I thought that he praised the right people. Said what he felt was honest and was convinced that he could be fantastic for us. I really believed that and still do.

I have supported PNE all my life and at 54 years I have seen some shit managers. But the best all time top 5 would be

Moyes
Davies
Ball
Peters
Styles in that order, so if the club have a chance to go back to the potential future then Davies has to be the man. Nothing is guaranteed, but he is our best chance and that I believe more than anything else on the whole planet.

 

[Neal Robhead]

Now we have crossed swords recently but dont let that make you think I am being a smart arse, cuz I am not.

Question. At this time after the disaster of relegation what would you prefer at this time?

Stability or promotion?

For me, get the promotion then the stability.

Happy New Year 🙂

Only a fool, or a "Real Nobhead" (well done on spotting that one by the way!) would turn their nose up at promotion, but I just think, should we acheive this he'll be pimping himself to bigger clubs at the first opportunity, and 12months down the line we'll probably end up at square one again. Changing managers & wholesale turnover of players every 12 months, does nobody any good as we have seen.

There's no guarantees he would get us promoted anyway, we could only realistically get in via the play-offs, and with our/his record in these games, I won't be holding my breath.

He is a decent manager, who can get a team so far, whether he can do it with a cut-price Hemmings transfer budget is still very much up for discussion, as in the past he's had plenty of funds to assist him.

There are still many questions that need to be answered, will Kelly et al also be returning? Without Kelly, would he be the same manager? Is he here for the long-haul? I bloody doubt it! etc, etc.

At the end of the day I think the 1000's of pages I have read on the matter have probably been a waste of time, as my gut feeling is he won't come back anyway, and he's just stringing us along & giving his ego a boost, whilst getting plenty of attention.

 

[norky84]

I'm not trying to make the lad look like he knows nothing. He did that himself. But thank you for your very lucid cotribution. Have you decided who you will side with when Davies falls out with Hemmings/Ridsdale?

Hardly covered yourself in glory by being wrong about Mears. He wasn't out of contract when he left. Unlike our most creative midfielder the Summer before. Even he slagged off our ambition when he left. Well done Derek!

 

[Albertan]

I had the impression we wouldn't have scored if we played all day, very disappointing considering we'd bossed them home and away.

I agree, Lewis, Nugent, McKenna even O'Neil to me all played like they had sand in their boots. But that is what the play offs are all about. The best team doesn't always win, and some quite ordinary teams have won Championship play off finals, Hull City, Burnley, Blackpool, even Watford all in recent years.

From watching those teams in their respective play off finals, I don't really think any of them were better than the Billy Davies team that lost to West Ham...........on the day of the final they may have been, but not over a season's games.

 

[Henrys Cat]

Having read through 12 pages of this thread, I'm still no wiser as to whether Billy Davies is coming back or not. My view is that I hope he does. What i do find strange on this thread, is the almost unilateral agreement that the current Youth team management be maintained, due to the great success they have had in the last couple of seasons.

Yet there seems to be the same unilateral agreement that the "young players" in the first team squad are simply not good enough. There is thread after thread ripping to bits the likes of Barton, Proctor and Mayor. I'm staggered by the abuse these young lads receive from this forum.

I really hope BD becomes the new manager and I do hope that the youth set up is maintained with the current personnel. I'd also like to see a bit more support for the products of that youth scheme from the knee jerk reactionaries on this forum.

 

[jakehake]

Hi big E glad to see you on was commenting earlier hoping you'd be on! Any news on all these rumours today is this Westley or Sammy Lee candidates or is as Chip Barm said is Billy "Job Done"?

Get a room. It's like watching a lovesick puppy

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[TSR2]

The day Cresswell left, KBD was at Roper Hall attending a Fans Forum and he was seething about this situation.

Shaw was playing games with Billy imo, trying to force him out by pulling stunts such as this.

That started it all off, after he had just calmed down over Lewis going,also their was the threat of Nugent being sold.
You get the sack on bad results and your best players are being sold off,cause you start to get mad.
If they had given Davies half the money they gave Irvine when the threat was League 1 on the cards we would have had a lot better chance of promotion to the Premiership.
But the talk at the time was North End were happy to just sit in the Championship,and looking back I think it was true.
Shaw got stressed out with just selling play off tickets for Gods sake.