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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Interesting where Heck goes from here. Remember that Lowe actually walked away feeling the club would damage his reputation at that point. Could there be a sit down where they work out a deal? He's one of the worst performing managers at this level currently.

Win percentage wise, Rooney achieved better at crisis hit Derby County at this level when he was asking old Utd mates not to retire (not after a rebuild he sanctioned and a record transfer paid for his pick). Fucking Wayne Rooney. Let that sink in.

Whatever way you look at it, he is failing in his job.
 
RibbletonWhite2.0 said:
It’s not recency bias.

We finished 10th and 11th under Lowe. We also beat Blackburn away twice.

Under Hecky we finished 20th and are set to finish 17th. We also stunk the place out in every derby we have played under him.

People who are saying it’s worse now isn’t recency bias. They just ain’t blind.

I will also add Hecky has had a better squad to utilise this season than Lowe ever had.
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I agree but I think it was obvious to me from within the first month what Lowe was, so what happened was exactly what I expected to happen. With Heckingbottom, I was expecting something different and (to an extent) the way it’s turned out has been surprising and impossibly feel let down.

The only positive at the moment is he isn’t Lowe. At the risk of being called a wet lettuce, his ill discipline really infuriates as well.
 
PNE04 said:
I’d search for a new manager in the summer but I did find his PPG, when his first choice keeper is fit, quite impressive.

Games like tonight are just not on the manager, either. Easily deserved at least a point.

Would prefer a fresh start, although ownership change is far more important.
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Quite a big sample size now though and by virtually every measure he is a worse manager than Lowe. The anti Scouse thing (and being more emotionally unstable in interviews) plays into the equation massively.

You can't have a manager with better players achieving lower win percentages and lower league positions and go 'he's still better than the last guy'.

Anyone who proves Paul Merson right deserves firing.
 
I think Hecky has been given more slack with most fans as he comes across as a decent bloke. So does McCall.

Lowe came across as a complete charlatan, he looked & sounded in interviews like he was just blagging his way through it all.

The fact remains though, Lowe's side finished higher in the division with an arguably poorer squad.

I think the (hopefully) new owner will want to make a change personally.
 
The first few months of the season was like a new era had arrived. We were playing some of the best football I've seen us play in years. I'm not sure what's happened internally at the club since December but somethings happened as we've fallen back into the dull turgid football of the last few years. Whether that's on the players, the manager or even those higher up, I don't know,
 
Durutti said:
You can't have a manager with better players achieving lower win percentages and lower league positions and go 'he's still better than the last guy'.
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This is a very fair point.

NG White said:
Lowe came across as a complete charlatan, he looked & sounded like he was just blagging his way through it all.
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That's because he was! 😅

As many have said, Hecky comes across like a knowledgeable football guy and is a credible manager; I think the players listen to what he tells them and try to carry out his instructions.

The problem is what those instructions are. 😏

Two years in, and with Small, Moran, Dobbin and Devine, we should be a hell of a lot better to watch than we are now.

In the last few weeks, our main tactic has been lumping it into the box and hoping for the best.

As @Preston Lad pointed out, since Wigan, we've played 18, only won 3, scored 15 and conceded 32.

It's nailed-on relegation form, yet PH keeps doing the same things, while drawing team selections from the Tombola and insisting on giving Smith minutes when he's absolutely finished at this level.

Then there's the Lukovic debacle, his treatment of young players (Moran, Small, Offiah), sticking two keepers on the bench, etc.

Lowe would rightly have been crucified for doing the same, but if we're judging by actions, not words, there's not much of a case for him staying.

Unfortunately, the current owners won't want to pay him and his staff off, so until/unless the new guys get in quick, we're going to have a very messy close season ahead. 🙁

Either that, or Hecky sounds out Barnsley, has a chat with Ridsdale and they shake hands on a settlement that's in everyone's best interests.
 
I think it’s best all round if we move on from PH in the summer

Those two complete collapses from each January are alarming

Although perhaps we just don’t have a squad capable of putting a full season together

Championship football is unforgiving both mentally and physically, I don’t think most of our squad are up to it
 
Heckingbottom may or may not be a good manager, the evidence is mixed, but I’m in no doubt that his goose is well and truly cooked here. Just not the right fit at all.

When you standout attribute is, and always has been, not having the first name Ryan and surname Lowe you aren’t going to get very far.
 
simo said:
Heckingbottom may or may not be a good manager, the evidence is mixed, but I’m in no doubt that his goose is well and truly cooked here. Just not the right fit at all.
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I don't think there is any argument that the evidence is mixed. Last season he had to come in a game in, no pre season. This year with the massive quality injection of Iversen, Dobbin, Devine, Small, Offiah and future England captain for half of it...the result is pretty much the same. Realistically, this is how long managers get to prove themselves at a club as an average. The sample size is there in terms of games and he's fucking dire.

The season is 40 plus games, not 20. We can't judge him on the first 20, but the overall.

He's completely, bafflingly shite.
 
Durutti said:
I don't think there is any argument that the evidence is mixed. Last season he had to come in a game in, no pre season. This year with the massive quality injection of Iversen, Dobbin, Devine, Small, Offiah and future England captain for half of it...the result is pretty much the same. Realistically, this is how long managers get to prove themselves at a club as an average. The sample size is there in terms of games and he's fucking dire.

The season is 40 plus games, not 20. We can't judge him on the first 20, but the overall.

He's completely, bafflingly shite.
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He's not though, is he? He's not underperforming with the squad. Same rubbish defence. Same mediocre strike force. A few games with a proper midfielder.

These players aren't being coveted by other clubs in the division. A few loanee highlights just mask the mediocre core.

Nobody is looking at our team sheet with the slightest hint of fear in this division.
 
Durutti said:
I don't think there is any argument that the evidence is mixed. Last season he had to come in a game in, no pre season. This year with the massive quality injection of Iversen, Dobbin, Devine, Small, Offiah and future England captain for half of it...the result is pretty much the same. Realistically, this is how long managers get to prove themselves at a club as an average. The sample size is there in terms of games and he's fucking dire.

The season is 40 plus games, not 20. We can't judge him on the first 20, but the overall.

He's completely, bafflingly shite.
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I was meaning more with ref to his management career as a whole. I’d agree that two seasons is more than enough to judge his performance here (I’d have been happy to see the back of him last summer FWIW).
 
HunterLionheart said:
He's not though, is he? He's not underperforming with the squad. Same rubbish defence. Same mediocre strike force. A few games with a proper midfielder.

These players aren't being coveted by other clubs in the division. A few loanee highlights just mask the mediocre core.

Nobody is looking at our team sheet with the slightest hint of fear in this division.
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The defence is set up by him.

He could play Offiah as the RCB of 3 - he doesn't
He could try Gibson and Offiah or Gibson and Storey as a central pair with Offiah as right back... he doesn't.

He is welded to Storey as the RCB in a 3. The man is either stubborn or thick. Take your pick.
 
Heckingbottom says he can't play a team with Wingers or Wide Players in a 3.

Oh yes you can Paul. It would mean dismantling your beloved 5 at the back bollox though.

When all are fit. Devine takes the Armstrong role as the progressive midfielder for clarity on his position. 4231.

Iversen
Offiah Storey Gibson Vukcevic
Whiteman Devine
Small ---- Dobbin ---- Moran
Osmajic​
 
HunterLionheart said:
He's not though, is he? He's not underperforming with the squad. Same rubbish defence. Same mediocre strike force. A few games with a proper midfielder.

These players aren't being coveted by other clubs in the division. A few loanee highlights just mask the mediocre core.

Nobody is looking at our team sheet with the slightest hint of fear in this division.
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But it isn't: it has Iversen (coveted by probably most of the division as statically one of the top keepers), Offiah and Gibson have brought move athleticism and quality to that aged defence. Moran ahead of fucking Woodburn? Devine and Dobbin ahead of Mads and Thor?

We can say it's the same team, it isn't. It's better than what Lowe and Heck last season had to work with. We aren't the 17th worst team in the division: Lowe proved that with weaker players. And Lowe was shite.

I'm not buying 'he's done his best with what he's been given' when he's had it better than most managers in our recent history and been fucking dogwank in every fucking respect.

Managing PNE is no picnic. This guy is, by just about every measure, the worst we've had.
 
Jack Daniels said:
Heckingbottom says he can't play a team with Wingers or Wide Players in a 3.

Oh yes you can Paul. It would mean dismantling your beloved 5 at the back bollox though.

When all are fit. Devine takes the Armstrong role as the progressive midfielder for clarity on his position. 4231.

Iversen
Offiah Storey Gibson Vukcevic
Whiteman Devine
Small---- Dobbin---- Moran
Osmajic​
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He has had a better opportunity to sack off the back 5 shite than any manager in recent history. He has more width and genuine quality in wide attacking areas than we've had in years.

He's a back 5 merchant.
 
Jhiac said:
The defence is set up by him.

He could play Offiah as the RCB of 3 - he doesn't
He could try Gibson and Offiah or Gibson and Storey as a central pair with Offiah as right back... he doesn't.

He is welded to Storey as the RCB in a 3. The man is either stubborn or thick. Take your pick.
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Yet Offiah literally played there last night (and has done plenty throughout the season) with Storey on the bench - we still lost and PH gets accused of persisting with the same team.
 
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