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Heckingbottom

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Heckingbottom

Another thing that is complete shite is the heavy rotation he insists on like he's fucking Pep. West Brom strolled out of relegation playing pretty much a consistent first 11. It's a messy team selection every week.
 
Durutti said:
I don't think there is any argument that the evidence is mixed. Last season he had to come in a game in, no pre season. This year with the massive quality injection of Iversen, Dobbin, Devine, Small, Offiah and future England captain for half of it...the result is pretty much the same. Realistically, this is how long managers get to prove themselves at a club as an average. The sample size is there in terms of games and he's fucking dire.

The season is 40 plus games, not 20. We can't judge him on the first 20, but the overall.

He's completely, bafflingly shite.
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Aside from the facts that the team needs cash investment from new owners for ball carriers and goal scorer -
in defence we have a ball carrier in Offiah-we need a midfield ball carrier signed -we need a proven goalscorer up top signed
Notwithstanding the above Hecky has no style of play other than dinosaur hoof ball and must be got rid asap 💯
 
HunterLionheart said:
He's not though, is he? He's not underperforming with the squad. Same rubbish defence. Same mediocre strike force. A few games with a proper midfielder.

These players aren't being coveted by other clubs in the division. A few loanee highlights just mask the mediocre core.

Nobody is looking at our team sheet with the slightest hint of fear in this division.
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He's underperforming with a squad that most would say is better than any the previous manager had.
 
Heck Tuah said:
Yet Offiah literally played there last night (and has done plenty throughout the season) with Storey on the bench - we still lost and PH gets accused of persisting with the same team.
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That may have something to do with him playing |Potts centrally, where he used to be shite, is still shite and always will be shite. Play Potts outside Offiah, naahh lets stick him in the middle
 
HunterLionheart said:
He's not though, is he? He's not underperforming with the squad. Same rubbish defence. Same mediocre strike force. A few games with a proper midfielder.

These players aren't being coveted by other clubs in the division. A few loanee highlights just mask the mediocre core.

Nobody is looking at our team sheet with the slightest hint of fear in this division.
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He’s bringing some of those criticisms on himself though. Why is he persisting with Potts and Pol as the RWB options when it’s blindingly clear they aren’t up to it, instead of allowing Small a run of games in a role he’s shown threat and promise? It’s not because he might make errors, because Pol is costing us goals regularly at the moment.

Why does he keep removing Offiah to play Storey at RCB when he’s a League 2 level RCB? Can’t be because of Offiah’s lapses of judgement because he’s still at fault for less than Storey whilst offering more going forward.

Why at no point have we tried a back 4 of Offiah/Storey/Gibson/Vukcevic, giving Vuk the licence to get forward and Offiah giving the stability at the back, similar to how Millwall setup and how Ipswich got promoted?

If people saw some attempt to find a solution to our glaring issues, there’d be fewer criticisms. Instead we see someone who is persisting with the same general style and the players that are underperforming. I’m not for a second suggesting any of those would work, but seeing a manager try them would give me more confidence that he is doing what he can
 
OB1 said:
He’s bringing some of those criticisms on himself though. Why is he persisting with Potts and Pol as the RWB options when it’s blindingly clear they aren’t up to it, instead of allowing Small a run of games in a role he’s shown threat and promise? It’s not because he might make errors, because Pol is costing us goals regularly at the moment.

Why does he keep removing Offiah to play Storey at RCB when he’s a League 2 level RCB? Can’t be because of Offiah’s lapses of judgement because he’s still at fault for less than Storey whilst offering more going forward.

Why at no point have we tried a back 4 of Offiah/Storey/Gibson/Vukcevic, giving Vuk the licence to get forward and Offiah giving the stability at the back, similar to how Millwall setup and how Ipswich got promoted?

If people saw some attempt to find a solution to our glaring issues, there’d be fewer criticisms. Instead we see someone who is persisting with the same general style and the players that are underperforming. I’m not for a second suggesting any of those would work, but seeing a manager try them would give me more confidence that he is doing what he can
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The annoying part with the Offiah thing is it rarely results in something bad, he's fast and he's got a brain so he ends up making up for it.

We are an incredibly rigid and boring team, we have been for a very long time. Weve had sparks this year with Dobbin and Devine, but we are limited when playing slow wing backs who aren't really that good on the ball.

He tried to do that set up when he first came in, playing Potts RB and Mads/Greenwood on the right. I never really understood why we just gave up with it so soon.
 
There are definitely questions over some of Heckingbottom’s selections, his record is undeniably awful, but I still think the biggest fundamental issue we have is the quality of the players.

They’re just not good enough to be consistently at the top end of the Championship.

Crappy control, panicking in possession, moving with the ball, going past a player, poorly placed passes and crosses, crap shooting - there is a big difference in the individual skill level our players are at versus the top sides in the division.

They do have days when it clicks, but they are nowhere near consistent enough and all too often they don’t seem capable of doing the basics.

We have a squad assembled with one of the shittest budgets in the league, what do we really expect?
 
pne1881 said:
He's underperforming with a squad that most would say is better than any the previous manager had.
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But you compare the squad to the rest of the division at the time as that's what's relevant, not to previous teams we've had.

More money is being spent by other clubs more than ever before which is why teams keep going past us. The quality of the league is higher if you consider the entire league, not just the top teams, because more teams are spending more money.

It's a mid table team, that was performing way above anyone's expectations in the first half of the season, and has definitely performed worse than it should've in the second half of the season. Losing Armstrong, and Iversen to injury, took it from a top half standard of a team to a bottom half team.

I do think Heckingbottom has done things wrong and does shoulder some of the blame however.
 
monky1234 said:
But you compare the squad to the rest of the division at the time as that's what's relevant, not to previous teams we've had.

More money is being spent by other clubs more than ever before which is why teams keep going past us. The quality of the league is higher if you consider the entire league, not just the top teams, because more teams are spending more money.

It's a mid table team, that was performing way above anyone's expectations in the first half of the season, and has definitely performed worse than it should've in the second half of the season. Losing Armstrong, and Iversen to injury, took it from a top half standard of a team to a bottom half team.

I do think Heckingbottom has done things wrong and does shoulder some of the blame however.
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Yeah precisely. You can only compare the level of the squad to those he has to compete against.

He's by no means perfect, wasn't my choice, and I won't be sad when he goes.

But the idea he is massively underperforming is a blinkered delusion harboured by people with no perspective on the rest of the league.
 
monky1234 said:
But you compare the squad to the rest of the division at the time as that's what's relevant, not to previous teams we've had.
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I fully agree with this. In the same way as it makes no sense to compare King John with Henry VIII, it is equally nonsensical to compare managers from different seasons. What matters is the level of achievement juxtaposed against levels of investment compared to contemporary rivals. While Heckingbottom has been backed, more so than his predecessor, investment in our moribund club remains totally inadequate.

We can't let Heckingbottom off the hook mind. He presumably knew the score when he took the job. He's done very little to promote his own cause.
 
Durutti said:
Another thing that is complete shite is the heavy rotation he insists on like he's fucking Pep. West Brom strolled out of relegation playing pretty much a consistent first 11. It's a messy team selection every week.
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The starting XI was the same vs West Brom as it was against Charlton.

But it's completely normal to change the XI depending on the opposition. It's not like he's making six changes every game, either.
 
SwissToni said:
I fully agree with this. In the same way as it makes no sense to compare King John with Henry VIII, it is equally nonsensical to compare managers from different seasons. What matters is the level of achievement juxtaposed against levels of investment compared to contemporary rivals. While Heckingbottom has been backed, more so than his predecessor, investment in our moribund club remains totally inadequate.

We can't let Heckingbottom off the hook mind. He presumably knew the score when he took the job. He's done very little to promote his own cause.
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In the plus column for Heckingbottom, I think he’s correctly identified and tried to improve the problems with our recruitment model. He’s done well on the budget he’s had to bring in a few players that should turn a profit.

Gibson, Small, Offiah, Moran all have potential to be sold on for decent money. That’s a novelty for us. We could also move on the frees like Vukcevic, Thompson, Valentin for actual transfer fees.

That’s probably been PH’s biggest achievement, plus bringing in very good loans.
 
HunterLionheart said:
Yeah precisely. You can only compare the level of the squad to those he has to compete against.

He's by no means perfect, wasn't my choice, and I won't be sad when he goes.

But the idea he is massively underperforming is a blinkered delusion harboured by people with no perspective on the rest of the league.
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Aye it seems like Hecky is a victim of his own success with the fans in a sense. We were doing well in the first half of the season to be as high up the table as we were. We then regressed to the mean but now all the fans are annoyed we aren't challenging for the playoffs even though no-one was expecting a playoff challenge going into the season. People have incredibly short memories about expectations for this season.
 

Championship spending over the last 3 seasons…. With the exception of Portsmouth every team around us in the spending table has now been relegated. We can all wish for a better manager but when he has to choose a midfield 3 from Devine, Thompson, Potts and Moran, even Pep Guardiola couldn’t get them playing football
 
Gordon Bennett said:
In the plus column for Heckingbottom, I think he’s correctly identified and tried to improve the problems with our recruitment model. He’s done well on the budget he’s had to bring in a few players that should turn a profit.

Gibson, Small, Offiah, Moran all have potential to be sold on for decent money. That’s a novelty for us. We could also move on the frees like Vukcevic, Thompson, Valentin for actual transfer fees.

That’s probably been PH’s biggest achievement, plus bringing in very good loans.
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The identification and recruitment of young potential saleable assets is 💯due to Risdale and his longstanding contacts in the game🤔
 
Gordon Bennett said:
In the plus column for Heckingbottom, I think he’s correctly identified and tried to improve the problems with our recruitment model. He’s done well on the budget he’s had to bring in a few players that should turn a profit.

Gibson, Small, Offiah, Moran all have potential to be sold on for decent money. That’s a novelty for us. We could also move on the frees like Vukcevic, Thompson, Valentin for actual transfer fees.

That’s probably been PH’s biggest achievement, plus bringing in very good loans.
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Very good point Gordon and I have to agree almost entirely. Vukcevic has no doubt put himself in the shop window with some very energetic and eye catching performances. Thompson I'm not completely sold on, but there are moments where he looks to be capable of holding the midfield together. After his impressive start to the season I would sadly have to say that if we could get a Mars Bar and a bag of balloons for Valentin at the moment we'd have done very well indeed.

Nevertheless I agree, I have less issues with Heckingbottom with regard to wider recruitment. He just needs to put it all together on the pitch.
 
monky1234 said:
But you compare the squad to the rest of the division at the time as that's what's relevant, not to previous teams we've had.

More money is being spent by other clubs more than ever before which is why teams keep going past us. The quality of the league is higher if you consider the entire league, not just the top teams, because more teams are spending more money.

It's a mid table team, that was performing way above anyone's expectations in the first half of the season, and has definitely performed worse than it should've in the second half of the season. Losing Armstrong, and Iversen to injury, took it from a top half standard of a team to a bottom half team.

I do think Heckingbottom has done things wrong and does shoulder some of the blame however.
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Yeah that's fair. I guess just compare the best 1-11 we had with both & also the squad in general.

We are deffo better now I have no doubts about that but if he's not getting the best out of a better squad then the buck stops with him.
 
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