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What's wrong tactically?

What's wrong tactically?

TF1 said:
Don’t even know where to start but something which is always clear is there’s nowhere near enough movement from all of our players when in possession.

They’re either way too close together to put together a move which gets them up the pitch or so spaced out that we’re forced to go long.

It kills us.
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Someone loses the ball. The 7-man defence chase back. Forwards stand still and watch them. Repeat.
 
Yeti said:
Agree on the movement and my other pet hate with the passing is that a lot of the time it is always behind the man they are passing to or where he is stood and not in the free space in front of him so when they get the ball they have to check there run and lose any momentum.
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Definitely .
Schoolboy...... stuff.
Basic..... stuff .
It's basic stuff that they cannot do..... seriously why the fek not ???

This is stuff that a good trainer cuts out .

Yeti said:
My other issue is and probably not something that can be taught to most is that when a player receives a pass they always control the ball and then look up giving the opposition time to close down or mark players instead of keeping there head up and controlling it and passing it all in one moving movement
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This isn't though..... it's not yer basic stuff
( I'm not disagreing with you here, Yeti & I hope that isn't what's coming across ) - aye it's not basic stuff....but the 'Quality Skills' stuff, that puts ££'s onto an individuals value if he's decent. A player like Armstrong who's already an idea or half an idea of what he might send & where - he's looked up, because he might be getting it- getting it by being saught- out OR getting a bit of a free ball by looking for it. Quality.
Quality PNE Players are sadly in short supply at the moment.
It was so nice to see that in a White Shirt at Deepdale for a change - even it it was only for a half of a season .
----oOo---
On several times last Saturday there were some - [no names].....'Ball-waiters'...(no not Ball-watchers but rather) - attacking players who don't look to run towards the ball & gather that pass (& use the fecker!) but instead wait until the ball come to them. This stops forward momentum.

Sorry this is MORE schoolboys stuff that should and can be trained out of them
By a good trainer .
Wtf ? Seriously ?
 
There was an instance with about 5 mins to go on Friday where whiteman had the ball in space about 40 yards out and there was a line of 4-5 players ahead of him in line with the edge of the box spaced across the pitch. Oxford had men back so there was no obvious pass. In this case the onus is on the players receiving the ball to change something with some movement or a run or an effort to draw the defenders out of shape to make some space. There was zero. Nothing. That’s the problem for me.

Whiteman gets the flack but in that situation he was left out of options. To me that isnt high level stuff at all and it makes us simple to play against. All you need to do is get men behind the ball and wait for us to give it to you. The players are better than this, some trained at premier league academies, they aren’t poor players. That’s on the coaching for me, no ideas, no plan.
 
I have had a few days off even thinking about the team - Friday night was such an utterly dismal experience. The performance was for the most part predictable and slow with the same routine of sideways passing to players standing and waiting instead of already moving interspersed with hoofs forward. I say for the most part because just occasionally we did what we ought to do and did try some pass and move and that was how we scored.

The change in formation did not work - the centre of the defence was too weak and how many times have I said it Hughes no longer has the pace to play left-back in a back four. On Friday that had the knock-on effect that Dobbin was dragged wide when to be a danger to the opposition he needs to be running much more centrally - to put it bluntly out wide he is a tricky but not particularly effective winger but in and and around the opposition penalty area he is a constant danger. Vukcevic as left-back would have been better both in defence and attack since he could have given us pace on the overlap allowing Dobbin to play more centrally.

The fundamental weakness remains the lack of drive and creativity in central midfield resulting from the non-return of Armstrong and the failure to bring in a replacement. Simply swapping Thompson for McCann is a meaningless gesture. Only a signing or two in the summer can remedy that situation so what we do now is a question without an obvious answer though as an expedient playing Devine deeper might work.

The only real objective for the season now is to survive and have a massive restructuring in the summer. But there is still pride to play for as well.
 
We would need to get a proper formation before getting the tactics sorted. We look shocking right now, Wednesday aside, we are the worst side in this division right now. Hecky out!
 
ernest said:
I have had a few days off even thinking about the team - Friday night was such an utterly dismal experience. The performance was for the most part predictable and slow with the same routine of sideways passing to players standing and waiting instead of already moving interspersed with hoofs forward. I say for the most part because just occasionally we did what we ought to do and did try some pass and move and that was how we scored.

The change in formation did not work - the centre of the defence was too weak and how many times have I said it Hughes no longer has the pace to play left-back in a back four. On Friday that had the knock-on effect that Dobbin was dragged wide when to be a danger to the opposition he needs to be running much more centrally - to put it bluntly out wide he is a tricky but not particularly effective winger but in and and around the opposition penalty area he is a constant danger. Vukcevic as left-back would have been better both in defence and attack since he could have given us pace on the overlap allowing Dobbin to play more centrally.

The fundamental weakness remains the lack of drive and creativity in central midfield resulting from the non-return of Armstrong and the failure to bring in a replacement. Simply swapping Thompson for McCann is a meaningless gesture. Only a signing or two in the summer can remedy that situation so what we do now is a question without an obvious answer though as an expedient playing Devine deeper might work.

The only real objective for the season now is to survive and have a massive restructuring in the summer. But there is still pride to play for as well.
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Agree with everything here. Switching to 4 at the back was a disaster and neither Storey nor Gibson could cope without the extra centre half. I hate seeing 532 week after week but it's clear that significant investment in the defence would be required to make this work. Pretty sure Heckingbottom alluded to this at the start of the season.
The wide open spaces between midfield prevent us playing through the thirds and getting our two best players Devine and Dobbin on the ball. McCann and Whiteman have their (different) qualities but both are primarily defensive midfielders. Ditto with Thompson.
There have been times this season when I have thought it should be either Dobbin or Devine - not always both. Now he's trying to shoe horn his record signing in there as well it's exacerbated the issue.
The consequence of failing to bring in replacements for Armstrong and Thor is there for all to see. While it was blindingly obvious for most at the end of January, it clearly wasn't for our coaching team and our self appointed director of football. Which is a massive concern.
I think the manager has undone all his good work from the opening five months of the season in the last two months. He looks completely lost at the moment without either the know how or the resources to stop the rot.
The consensus of the fans has clearly switched and experience says once that happens you don't come back. He's a dead man walking for me.
 
simo said:
There was an instance with about 5 mins to go on Friday where whiteman had the ball in space about 40 yards out and there was a line of 4-5 players ahead of him in line with the edge of the box spaced across the pitch. Oxford had men back so there was no obvious pass. In this case the onus is on the players receiving the ball to change something with some movement or a run or an effort to draw the defenders out of shape to make some space. There was zero. Nothing. That’s the problem for me.

Whiteman gets the flack but in that situation he was left out of options. To me that isnt high level stuff at all and it makes us simple to play against. All you need to do is get men behind the ball and wait for us to give it to you. The players are better than this, some trained at premier league academies, they aren’t poor players. That’s on the coaching for me, no ideas, no plan.
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This is it for me.

Our movement off the ball is dreadful. I would also add the pace we move the ball is pretty atrocious which is why we are so poor at scoring goals/creating chances. Whiteman gets the stick and that is mainly because he is captain which is wrong. It isn't just whiteman it is everyone. The defence, wing back and midfield.
 
Also pisses me off how often our players don’t see an obvious quick one-two with the player that’s just passed to them.

One of the most basic moves in football, but the players’ movement and awareness of where their teams are is really poor.

Ironically, Mads was one of the few players who always looked to do this and play quickly, but everyone else seems to be on a completely different wavelength.
 
Terrible thought really but watching Oxford in there baxi shirts, not the most skilled side but they really work hard for each other and fought for everything.

Bit like watching gregan and co way back when
 
Think too much is being put on the change in system and how it apparently failed defensively. Most of their chances, bar the one we gifted to them by fucking about with it, came from set pieces. That's got nothing to do with the formation we're playing. Especially when the players that would've been in the back three system, were all playing against Oxford. Plus another.

However, there's not many games left where we'd be given most of the possession, other than possibly Charlton and QPR, so might not see a different system much more anyway. So should hopefully help us pick up a few more points so the few people who think we may get relegated can sleep alright.
 
HunterLionheart said:
Every game is different because of the opposition.

Personally I'd say that yesterday we selected a very slow defence, which left us super vulnerable on the counter attack, which is how Oxford were very happy to play.

Watching Hughes ineffectively chase their lad back the entire length of the pitch after our shambolic free kick routine was pretty embarrassing.

Feels like if you're going to play 4-2-3-1, with the wide attackers cutting in onto their stronger foot, then you want fullbacks with some pace who can overlap and keep the defence stretched.
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This begs the question of why did Hecky play, effectively, 4 centre backs in a back 4 the other night? I can probably see the rationale - "to negate the opposition threat". But, for Christs sake it was Oxford at home. A complete wasted opportunity when you consider that we had Valentin & Vuckovich on the bench. Two pacy attacking proper fullbacks. Some of our best attacking moments of the season have come from both of them getting to the byline & putting crosses in. The season is effectively over in terms of a play off push & lower mid table mediocrity beckons.....again. Take the hand brake off and give it a go Hecky
 
The set up is wrong in terms of the open willingness to concede possession and hence we have no desire to set the tempo of the game. That means we always give away territory and then look to spring attacks.
Occasionally we set up a high-press and this be aggressive, it works for a game, then we get smashed and revert to negative mindset.
I watch very game, and we now set up with 5 at the back and 2 sitting midfielders. This is an attempt to shut out the opposition, but we don’t. We literally don’t even park the bus correctly.
And I don’t buy that our players aren’t good enough.
 
buckshawwhite said:
This begs the question of why did Hecky play, effectively, 4 centre backs in a back 4 the other night? I can probably see the rationale - "to negate the opposition threat". But, for Christs sake it was Oxford at home. A complete wasted opportunity when you consider that we had Valentin & Vuckovich on the bench. Two pacy attacking proper fullbacks. Some of our best attacking moments of the season have come from both of them getting to the byline & putting crosses in. The season is effectively over in terms of a play off push & lower mid table mediocrity beckons.....again. Take the hand brake off and give it a go Hecky
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For me this is just the managers mentality in his first thought is to try and stop the opposition and not lose the game instead of playing to your strengths and going for the win. Can understand it against certain teams like Middlesbrough, Ipswich but not at home to Oxford
 
buckshawwhite said:
This begs the question of why did Hecky play, effectively, 4 centre backs in a back 4 the other night? I can probably see the rationale - "to negate the opposition threat". But, for Christs sake it was Oxford at home. A complete wasted opportunity when you consider that we had Valentin & Vuckovich on the bench. Two pacy attacking proper fullbacks. Some of our best attacking moments of the season have come from both of them getting to the byline & putting crosses in. The season is effectively over in terms of a play off push & lower mid table mediocrity beckons.....again. Take the hand brake off and give it a go Hecky
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It seems that he thought it would be better against a team strong at set pieces. That obviously worked out well!
 
Rigid PH tactics on a pitch not suited to fancy stuff playing out the back.
Some bizarre team selections.
Failing to sign a decent defender in 5 windows
 
twickerspne said:
Rigid PH tactics on a pitch not suited to fancy stuff playing out the back.
Some bizarre team selections.
Failing to sign a decent defender in 5 windows
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Signed two pretty decent defenders. Managed to make one of them truly atrocious, hopefully the other one goes the other way.
 
Having listened to Heckingbottom, it seems the tactics and performances are there. We should’ve won at Ipswich and Swansea and took a point at Ewood.
My eyes are clearly deceiving me.
But in my opinion if he thinks the performances are there, then we really are playing lottery football.
 
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